Posted on 02/09/2014 8:05:52 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
According to recent polls, some 81 percent of adult Americans believe in heaven, and fully 80 percent expect to go there when they die. By comparison, about 61 percent believe in hell, but less than 1 percent think it’s likely they will go there. In other words, a slight majority of Americans still believe hell exists, but genuine fear of hell is almost nonexistent.
Even the most conservative evangelicals don’t seem to take hell very seriously anymore. For decades, many evangelicals have downplayed inconvenient biblical truths, neglecting any theme that seems to require somber reflection. Doctrines such as human depravity, divine wrath, the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and the reality of eternal judgment have disappeared from the evangelical message.
The trend has not escaped everyone’s attention. Thirty years ago, for example, Martin Marty, religious historian, professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, and critic of all things evangelical, delivered the Ingersoll Lecture on Immortality at Harvard Divinity School. The title of his message was “Hell Disappeared. No One Noticed.” Marty’s research had failed to turn up a single scholarly article dealing with the subject of hell in any significant theological journal over the previous century. Citing the dearth of attention being given to so large a topic, Marty suggested that if evangelicals really took seriously what Scripture says about eternal punishment, someone with a voice should notice.
Almost no one did. Eighteen years later, The Los Angeles Times featured a front-page article titled “Hold the Fire and Brimstone,” pointing out that many style-conscious evangelical church leaders were purposely omitting the theme of divine retribution:
In churches across America, hell is being frozen out as clergy find themselves increasingly hesitant to sermonize on … a story line that no longer resonates with churchgoers. [According to] Harvey Cox Jr., an eminent author, religious historian and professor at the Harvard Divinity School, “You can go to a whole lot of churches week after week, and you’d be startled even to hear a mention of hell.”
Hell’s fall from fashion indicates how key portions of Christian theology have been influenced by a secular society that stresses individualism over authority and the human psyche over moral absolutes. The rise of psychology, the philosophy of existentialism, and the consumer culture have all dumped buckets of water on hell.
The article profiled an evangelical pastor who said he believes in hell, but (according to the Times) “you’d never know it listening to him preach… . He never mentions the topic; his flock shows little interest in it.” Asked why the doctrine of hell has gone missing, this pastor replied, “It isn’t sexy enough anymore.”
The article also quoted a well-known seminary professor who more or less agreed. Hell, he said, is “just too negative… . Churches are under enormous pressure to be consumer-oriented. Churches today feel the need to be appealing rather than demanding.”
The article closed with a quote from Martin Marty, almost two decades after his famous lecture on the subject. He agreed that market-driven concerns are the main reason hell is being expunged from the evangelical message:
Once pop evangelism went into market analysis, hell was just dropped. When churches go door to door and conduct a market analysis … they hear, “I want better parking spaces. I want guitars at services. I want to have my car greased while I’m in church.”
Years of indifference finally paved the way for open hostility. In the first decade of the new millennium, certain prominent figures in the “emergent church” declared war on the biblical doctrine of hell. The groundswell seemed to crest a couple of years ago with the publication of Rob Bell’s bestselling book Love Wins. Bell argued that it’s absurd to think a loving God would ever damn anyone to eternal punishment. He portrayed God’s love as a force that clashes with and ultimately eliminates the demands of justice. In the storyline Bell envisions, God requires no payment or punishment for sin. The divine response to evil is always remedial, never punitive. Furthermore, the wages of sin are mild, temporary, and reserved only for grossly malevolent villains—mass murderers, child rapists, tyrants who engineer genocide, and (one supposes) Christians who tell unbelievers they should fear God. When it’s all over, everyone will be together in paradise.
In such a system, God’s righteousness is compromised, repentance is optional, atonement is unnecessary, and the truth of God’s Word is nullified. In other words, nothing of biblical Christianity is left. Once anyone sets out to tone down or tame the hard truths of Scripture, that’s where the process inevitably leads.
Only a few leading voices in the evangelical movement have lobbied boldly for a more orthodox approach to the doctrine of hell. They seem to be outnumbered by those who think the disappearance of hell is a positive development.
Some have proposed alternative ways to speak of sin and judgment in gentler, toned-down, and more refined and socially acceptable terminology than Scripture uses. Sin is deemed wrong not because it is an offense against the righteousness of God, but because of the hurt it causes others. Hell is described not as a place of eternal punishment but simply as a realm apart from God. In the reimagined eschatology of stylish evangelicals, no one is ever “sent” to hell; sinners actually choose to spend eternity apart from God—and the “hell” they suffer is merely an abundance of what they loved and desired the most. Hell is necessary only because God is reluctant to overrule anyone’s free will. Therefore, with a more or less benign acquiescence, He ultimately defers to the sinner’s choice. God’s righteous indignation has no meaningful place in such a scenario.
It is a serious mistake to imagine that we improve Scripture or enhance its effectiveness by blunting its sharp edges. Scripture is a sword, not a cotton swab, and it needs to be fully unsheathed before it can be put to its intended use. “The word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart” (Heb. 4:12). The gospel is supposed to be an affront to fleshly pride, offensive to human sensibilities, foolishness in the eyes of worldly wisdom, and contrary to all carnal judgments.
No Christian teaching exemplifies those characteristics more powerfully than the doctrine of hell. It is an appalling truth. We rightly recoil at the thought of it. The doctrine of hell thus stands as a warning and a reminder of what a loathsome reality sin is. No reasonable or godly person delights in the reality of eternal damnation. God Himself says, “As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked” (Ezek. 33:11).
Yet the severity of God’s wrath and the woes of hell are prominent in Scripture. The New Testament speaks more vividly and more frequently about hell than the Old Testament does. In fact, Jesus Himself had more to say about the subject than any other prophet or biblical writer. Far from smoothing over the difficulties that seem to embarrass so many evangelicals today, Jesus said:
Do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! (Luke 12:4–5)
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. (Matt. 18:8–9)
We do no one any favors by downplaying the truth of God’s wrath or neglecting to mention the severity of His judgment. We certainly don’t eliminate the threat of hell by refusing to speak or think of it. If we truly believe what the Bible teaches about the eternal fate of unbelievers, it is in no sense “loving” to remain silent and refuse to sound the appropriate alarm.
What, after all, is the good news we proclaim in the gospel? It is not an announcement that no one really needs to fear God or fret about the possibility of hell. As a matter of fact, there would be no glad tidings at all if God merely intended to capitulate to the stubborn will of man and forgo the demands of His perfect righteousness.
The good news is even better than most believers understand: God made a way for His righteousness and His love to be fully reconciled. In His incarnation, Christ fulfilled all righteousness (satisfying, not nullifying, the demands of His law). In His death on the cross, He paid the price of His people’s sin in full (assuring the triumph of perfect justice). And in His resurrection from the dead, He put a powerful exclamation mark on His own perfect, finished work of atonement (thus sealing the promise of justification forever for those who trust Him as Lord and Savior).
That is the message we must declare to a worldly culture utterly lacking any real fear of God. We cannot do it faithfully or effectively if from the very outset we have omitted the harsh truth Scripture declares about “the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty” (Rev. 19:15).
There you go again! I'm not your judge...yet you continue to harp on it. It must be your inner wish for man to judge you instead of The Almighty ALL KNOWING according to HIS WORD for HE is The Word.
If there is no hell what did Jesus save mankind from? Heaven? See how ridiculous you appear while claiming Jesus The Word is the author of a myth.
Nor is it rocket science to understand why one who deliberately defies the Words of God would want hell to be a myth.
I could post LOTS to you - so far you've stomp on the Word of God with NO knowledge or belief of it and imply God is unfair. Yeah, sure you are a christian LOL!!! while showing your lack of knowledge and belief in the most basic.
"Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"
First of all, I fully believe in hell, and I believe God will allow people to choose hell, or to not choose faith in Christ for salvation, which is the same result and basically the same thing. God is just and will be shown and known to be just when he does so.
My point is the concept of hell does not make or break whether you have accepted Christ’s offer of salvation. Whather saved from sin or saved from hell, still saved. We are not saved by believing the proper things other than Christ is God and died for our sin.
Whether you believe in hell or not is moot. If it is there, and it is, then those who don’t believe in it or Christ are in peril of finding out later.
I wasn’t talking to you. I told you I’d give you the last word but you couldn’t stop youself.
You can harp all you want but I won’t deny my God. You could burn me at the stake and I would not. What kind of Christian would goad a fellow Christian to do that?
You tell me nothing nor do you give me anything. Got it?
but I won’t deny my God.
You deny HIM when you deny HIS WORD and you did.
You could burn me at the stake and I would not
Look at the dramatics while making yourself saint like. LOL!! TRUTH really 'burns' you, I see. In reality, the lack of Truth and denying IT will burn for eternity.
What kind of Christian would goad a fellow Christian to do that?
So telling the Truth is goading to you. And I do NOT consider anyone DELIBERATELY DENYING God's Word a christian; implying God is the author of myths. That comes from the pit of hell and anyone who implies such in anyway serves satan.
Now you are over the limit - you had more than enough warnings.
Titus 3:10 "Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them."
Fine. You’ve “warned” me. I You are wrong.
God is just and will be shown and known to be just when he does so.
And HE will be just to those who spread untruths about HIS Word like saying you don't have to listen to God's Word about i.e. hell as it isn't a requirement'. So what you are saying is God has useless Words. That's damning and from the pit.
My point is the concept of hell does not make or break whether you have accepted Christ’s offer of salvation
I get your point as you make the decision what to believe in HIS Word and tell others, also. Many 'think' they will get in by the skin of their teeth by picking and choosing what to believe as long as they 'THINK' they accepted 'his offer'.
We are not saved by believing the proper things other than Christ is God and died for our sin.
Oh really scholar - so there 'proper things' in HIS WORD than doesn't need to believe - just believe Jesus is God and HE died for you to 'get out of hell free card'. God could have given us one half page as His WORD then. I'm glad you admit God is just..... wonder how long that will last when your times come.
Whether you believe in hell or not is moot. If it is there, and it is,
So BELIEVING Jesus The Word is moot to you, I see. And then 'IF' His Word is true? You are really racking up some score card here. Mind you, I notice you don't say JESUS but use Christ which means anointed one. That's catholicism - the name of JESUS gets stuck in their throat.
then those who don’t believe in it or Christ are in peril of finding out later.
OR Christ? JESUS IS THE WORD and when you don't believe HIS WORD you do NOT BELIEVE HIM. And those who don't believe are in peril? What about those who spread untruths about His Word; yet, say they believe in hell themselves. Do you relish in deceiving those in peril and think you aren't in peril? Satan believes in hell/he knows his destiny and deceives people there is no hell or God's Word is not important, also.
JESUS warned you with HIS WORD and HE IS NEVER WRONG!!
According to you accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is not enough to be saved. We disagree.
You maybe right.
The biggest disappointment Christians have is when they die, meet Jesus, and he tells them they have to reincarnate again, they will not be in heaven.
They do earn good merit for their faith, and Jesus will lead them to a situation where they can work off debts from previous lives, rather than just have faith alone.
Hopefully they will make good progress on their souls evolution to freedom from rebirth and reuniting with Christ.
Along with being desperate to squeeze into heaven while believing 'man' and that 'all you have to do is......'. So they can hang onto their 'myths', their 'what's moot to be a Christian', their 'critical thinking', etc - all which goes against The Word of God. The 'temporary comfort group' are like low info voters and just vote with no thought of the consequences of that vote.
Here's something for the 'comfort group' which I already posted that 'they looking for comfort' all overlooked - because it's not 'comfort food' and doesn't fit in with deception they so willingly feed on and swallow. And some because they never came up to the caliber of these mentioned below; yet, they were rejected them because they never got to KNOW God. How much more an outcast than those who don't BELIEVE JESUS The WORD and trust their own words/beliefs (worldly/human) over God's Word (supernatural).
Matt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
According to you accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is not enough to be saved. We disagree.
Well, then the 'we' are not Christians, so the 'we' won't agree with TRUTH. For they set themselves up as their own gods with their own beliefs so they obviously would be different than JESUS The Word.
So you see when one goes against The Word - they are NOT ACCEPTING JESUS..... for JESUS IS THE WORD.
The 'man made teaching' BELIEVERS are unable to see things clearly for they serve a different master - who is the Deceiver/the Liar. 'Man made teachings' are from the pit and meant to deceive and when this age of grace is over will be burnt up and those who follow those teachings now, follow it into the pit.
I accept Jesus. I don’t accept your interpretation of that he said. Don’t feel bad. Even the Apostles didn’t understand Him right away.
My interpretation of what HE said?? Open His Word and see for yourself.... what He said about hell and who goes there and who it was originally created for. It is a REAL PLACE and NOT a myth according to your beliefs...who proclaims themselves as a 'god' with their own beliefs.
You accepted deception which defies JESUS The Word. So did Adam/Eve....so what you are doing is nothing new and 'it's history' dates back to it. Their shame is they REFUSE to learn TRUTH. Satan hasn't to do a thing any more as he has his own doing it for him and fighting FOR him and it'a always against JESUS The Word - that they don't understand anyway as they are NOT spiritually discerning for they are a 'worldly crew'. Unless one be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
"The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His Hand."
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth NOT the Son shall NOT see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
JESUS IS The Word. "In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Don’t feel bad. Even the Apostles didn’t understand Him right away.
Is that what your deceptive church told you? Don't feel bad because.........?
The apostles did not understand HIM but PAUL did - as He knew HIM ONLY in the Spirit, as he never met Jesus in the flesh. For the ONLY way we can KNOW God is 'in the Spirit'. And we know from Scripture/God's Word - that Peter was clueless as to WHO JESUS really was as it HAD to be revealed to him by The Father because the HS had not come yet. Since 'man made teaching' believers are not born again, their deceptive church strokes them to 'not feel bad' for they are 'not of the Spirit' but only 'of the flesh'. It works on them because they prefer stroking over TRUTH - deep within them there is a restlessness as they have NO assurance of anything.
It doesn't work on one who is BORN AGAIN/Filled with The Spirit of God - as they have assurance and KNOW Jesus is THE Truth, JESUS is THE Way and JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE. And NO ONE can pluck them out of The Father's HAND. Safe and secure for ALL eternity!
So those who defy God's Word not only WILL feel bad but ARE BAD. For they have choosen 'man's/evil' words over GOD'S WORD that IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY. They failed to choose wisely and rather than admit their own failure - their pride leads them to point to another. So they fail again. And will continue to fail willingly as they are in a 'deceptive state' and some have been given over to the 'depraved state'.
The Lord told Eve if she ate the fruit she would surely die. The serpent told her no she would not surely died.
The Lord told the truth. The serpent lied.
The serpent told her no she would not surely died.
The serpent lied.
She did die spiritually and the fall come because she believed 'another' that defied The Word of God
So 'man/evil' lied to you....and you believe it....'that hell is a myth! IN SPITE OF what God says. You have dug your own trap - no one made you believe it....it was your own choice. Same as Adam/Eve....satan deceives and it's easy to see who believes satan/man OVER GOD! We all have the benefit of God's Word now ....there is no excuse but it's clearly a DELIBERATE CHOICE to not BELIEVE JESUS THE WORD.
It is my deliberate choice to choose Jesus as my Lord and savior.
It is my deliberate prayerful reading of the Word that leads me to conclude that eternal torture is inconsistent with the loving God.
I reject your interpretation. I embrace my Loving God.
It is your deliberate choice NOT TO Believe JESUS for JESUS IS THE WORD. You can't accept what 'you want' without accepting and believing in your heart what JESUS says and you already shown you don't.
It is my deliberate prayerful reading of the Word that leads me to conclude that eternal torture is inconsistent with the loving God.
First of all, one doesn't conclude to Truth. You believe it. No one can please God without FAITH. Now you, also, did not take as TRUTH - when Jesus said - "So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man. Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight."
And just another one you failed to believe as TRUTH. "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts."
So thinking you can just say you accept Jesus while you have DELIBERATELY chose NOT to believe HIM doesn't work. No one can have themselves in 'man made teachings and think they found a short cut to 'save themselves' while not believing JESUS. You can only serve ONE master. 'Man-made teaching believers choose 'man/evil' to serve. There is ONLY ONE Way and it is NOT your way through 'your conclusion'.
ETERNAL torture is what 'man' chooses for themselves as they do NOT believe Jesus. See how deception works, you end up with exactly what you didn't want. And that's what catholicsm, mormonism, islam, JW, wicca and all 'religions' /man made teachings do. Their followers are deceived and they CANNOT see they are deceived nor do they want Truth and/or they do not even recognize TRUTH as TRUTH. They fight it constantly because of 'their pride'. And they rebel being told that, also. They make themselves unreachable. God says to tell them once and then tell them, again, and then have no use for them. If someone doesn't recognize TRUTH, they have no heart for Truth.
You can want all you want, but you don't get it 'your way' You do it like everyone does who are saved. You have one master and HE IS JESUS. And you BELIEVE what He says by Faith and DO NOT LEAN on your own understanding which is warped with bad teaching to begin with and a human mind trying to understand the supernatural shows an immense amount of pride which catholicism bathes in...pride. So drop it! One needs to be spiritually discerning and that comes with being filled with The Spirit. It's your choice, not God's for It IS FINISHED. Jesus done everything about salvation 2,000 years ago....the ball is in your court. So HE does NOT send anyone anywhere - it's ones own choice on what they believe and/or don't believe. And deception makes those willing to be deceived, deceived. Anyone who believes 'man' over GOD is easy prey for deception.
t is my deliberate prayerful reading of the Word that leads me to conclude ....
Now tells us 'where did Jesus say to deliberately and prayerfully conclude anything? He said the opposite... 'Just BELIEVE HIM' Your 'deliberate and prayerful' might sound 'religious' to you and it is...and it brought you back to where you started, being deceived with 'your conclusion'.
What part of this did you deliberately overlook? The Lord says, "These people worship me with their mouths and honor me with their lips. But their hearts are far from me, and their worship of me is [based on] rules made by humans."
Jesus said 'hear and obey'. So far you haven't heard/believed what HE said and therefore can't obey it. That's your choice, so deliberate prayer means nothing until you RENEW YOUR MIND to the WORD OF GOD and GOD is ALMIGHTY and admit you know you squat but must LEARN from what HE said. HE knows BEST as to HIS WAY. There are no short cuts but ONE WAY no matter 'what you conclude'. It's not your way - IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS The Word.
And don't think you can have one foot in man made teachings and one foot in the Word of God and arrive at TRUTH. For Jesus said..... "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." It's your choice to BELIEVE JESUS, not God's. So NEVER accuse Him of the ways/beliefs/conclusions and sins of man.
I believe the truth. The truth is no human soul suffers torture for all eternity. That is a lie right from Satan NOT JESUS.
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