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To: spirited irish
spirited irish: "These men are atheists only with respect to their unbelief in a living, personal Creator who..."

By "these men", you are referring to whom?

Again, I'll post this listing of well-known Christian scientific thinkers throughout history.
The list is hundreds long, and includes over a dozen evolutionists.
It does not include our more deistic Founders, like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but it does include names like Isaac Newton and Louis Pasteur.
The list confirms that neither all scientists nor all evolutionists are effectively atheists.

Nor does that list include hundreds of historical Jewish scientists, who were/are also not atheists.
As for those scientist who were/are atheists, I can't defend them, except to point out that any broad generalizations are likely to be inaccurate.

spirited irish: "Of course none of these men were atheists with respect to their religiously held belief in the ‘nature’ philosophies and/or nature religions (i.e., Epicurean Materialism, Neo-Platonic or Eastern Pantheism) they embraced."

Since your term "these men" refers to nobody specific, I'll have to take it as a broad generalization, likely to be inaccurate.

spirited irish: "All nature religions/philosophical systems are monist by nature."

Perhaps if you could name some of these alleged monistically oriented scientists, we could test your hypothesis to see if it holds up?

spirited irish: "But as Crick has honestly admitted, pan spermia merely moves the problem of life out into deep space."

The fact is that as of today, there is no serious evidence to confirm any "origin of life" hypothesis.
It's all just educated guess-work.
What is known for certain is that some simple organic chemicals (not life!) are found in comets, and doubtless also arrived on earth.
It's also known for certain that under certain conditions, very simple organic chemistry can become more and more complex.
But nobody (so far as I know) has yet found or demonstrated how naturally created complex chemistry began to take on characteristics we today might call "lifelike".
Until that happens, all the various hypotheses are just that: educated guesswork.

62 posted on 09/24/2013 10:49:38 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

“By “these men”, you are referring to whom?”

Spirited: Certainly not the Christians, but rather Max Planck and Einstein, whose god was akin to Spinoza’s pantheist conception:

“In a letter to Hans Muehsam (30 March 1954), Einstein said: “I am a deeply religious nonbeliever... This is a somewhat new kind of religion.” [Einstein Archive 38-434]

In a letter to a child who asked if scientists pray (24 January 1936), said: “Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man... In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.” [Einstein Archive 42-601]

In a letter to M. Berkowitz (25 October 1950), Einstein said: “My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.” [Einstein Archive 59-215] http://www.adherents.com/people/pe/Albert_Einstein.html

“Planck’s God, it seemed, was nothing more than an “ideal Sprit.” His beliefs could be described as pantheist, but certainly not Christian. His idea of faith was akin to having a working hypothesis. Planck did not believe in a future life. http://freethoughtalmanac.com/?p=2011


64 posted on 09/24/2013 11:40:07 AM PDT by spirited irish
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