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To: BroJoeK; boatbums; GarySpFc
Yes indeed Psalm 45 is quoted in Hebrews 1:8,9. Paul is clearly showing Psalm 45:6 refers to the Son of God and Messiah Jesus Christ. Whereas Psalm 82 is not referencing the Son of God and Messiah Jesus Christ.

And again, we have the lexicon define "O God" as 'elohiym' as well as 'elohiym' is used for God in many other places in the OT:

The KJV translates Strongs H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x).

In the 2,346 times 'elohiym' is used for God (with a capital G in our language) Psalm 45 is an instance of the use for God, not gods or a god. The Psalm 82 reference is clearly "gods" and not God. To continue to use the God vs. Jesus Christ is "a god" argument you would have to explain some sort of pantheon explained in the OT scriptures. There is no such pantheon.

Now in the Greek used in Hebrews 1:

Again, 'theos' is used:

The KJV translates Strongs G2316 in the following manner: God (1,320x), god (13x), godly (3x), God-ward (with G4214) (2x), misc (5x).

If you select 'god' for this verse in Hebrews, then you will have to change many more throughout the NT.

Now to compare the Greek with the Hebrew between passages in the OT and NT we use this:

Revelation 1:(LEB and KJV given below for comparison)

8I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, the one who is and the one who was and the one who is coming, the All-Powerful.(LEB literal translation)

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Compare with the following:

Isaiah 44:(KJV, LEB and and KJV used for comparison)

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.(KJV)

Now the LEB:Isaiah 44:

6 Thus says Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me. 7 And who is like me? Let him proclaim it! And let him declare it and set it in order for me since I established an eternal people and things that are to come, and let them tell them the things that are coming. 8 You must not tremble, and you must not be paralyzed with fear. Have I not made you hear from of old and declared it, and you are my witnesses? Is there a god besides me? And there is no rock! I know none!”(LEB)

Is it The Father in Revelation 1 and Isaiah 44 or the Son?

2,588 posted on 12/30/2013 11:57:40 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter
redleghunter: "Yes indeed Psalm 45 is quoted in Hebrews 1:8,9.
Paul is clearly showing Psalm 45:6 refers to the Son of God and Messiah Jesus Christ.
Whereas Psalm 82 is not referencing the Son of God and Messiah Jesus Christ."

You know, after awhile, you become very familiar with these verses, and their references...

Begin here: in John 10:34, Jesus refers to himself as "Son of God" in the same sense as humans are called "gods" in Psalm 82:6.
It's a title of utmost respect, not a claim of deity.

In Hebrews 1:8 the author (Paul?) refers to Jesus using quotes from Psalm 45:6 in which, again, a human king is referred to as "God" -- a title of utmost respect, not a claim of deity.

FRiend, the Jews were then, and remain today, very particular on this point: there is only One God, and no matter what exalted titles we might give anybody else, they are not Him.

redleghunter: "Psalm 45 is an instance of the use for God, not gods or a god."

And yet, "God" in Psalm 45 clearly refers to a human king -- it's a title of utmost respect.
In that same sense, the OT Hebrew word for "worship" also means to bow down to a king.
So the author of Hebrews (Paul?) is telling us that Jesus Christ deserves the same level of respect as shown the king in Psalm 45.

redleghunter: "The Psalm 82 reference is clearly "gods" and not God.
To continue to use the God vs. Jesus Christ is "a god" argument you would have to explain some sort of pantheon explained in the OT scriptures.
There is no such pantheon."

But Psalm 82:6 is the reference Jesus makes in John 10:34, to demonstrate that the title "Son of God" is not blasphemy.
If humans can be called "gods", Jesus says, then his title "Son of God" cannot be blasphemy.

So, in both Psalms 45:6 and 82:6, the word "god" or "God" is a title of utmost respect for a human being, a title the New Testament writers believed also appropriate for Jesus.

redleghunter: "If you select 'god' for this verse in Hebrews, then you will have to change many more throughout the NT."

No, the appropriate understandings are the words and their contexts from the Old Testament Psalms, where "god" or "God" were used as terms of utmost respect for a human king.

redleghunter: "Is it The Father in Revelation 1 and Isaiah 44 or the Son?"

Is this a trick question?
Isaiah 44:6-8 obviously and only can refer to the God of Israel, as arguably does Revelation 1:8.

2,597 posted on 12/30/2013 2:05:56 PM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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