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To: Sherman Logan

RE: While the southern people had a right to contend that “the people” in question were the people of the individual states, unionists had an equal right to contend that “the people” were the people of the United States.


Yes, but what was the INTENT of the framers and those who RATIFIED the constitution?

If we do not appeal to that, then all we can do is appeal to whoever has the most weapons.

As I wrote above, In Federalist Paper 39, James Madison, the father of the Constitution, cleared up what “the people” meant, saying the proposed Constitution would be subject to ratification by the people, “not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong.”

In a word, states were sovereign; the federal government was a creation, an agent, a servant of the states.

On the eve of the War of 1861, even unionist politicians saw secession as a right of states. Maryland Rep. Jacob M. Kunkel said, “Any attempt to preserve the Union between the States of this Confederacy by force would be impractical, and destructive of republican liberty.” The northern Democratic and Republican parties favored allowing the South to secede in peace.

Just about every major Northern newspaper editorialized in favor of the South’s right to secede. New York Tribune (Feb. 5, 1860): “If tyranny and despotism justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861.”

Detroit Free Press (Feb. 19, 1861): “An attempt to subjugate the seceded States, even if successful could produce nothing but evil — evil unmitigated in character and appalling in content.”

The New York Times (March 21, 1861): “There is growing sentiment throughout the North in favor of letting the Gulf States go.”


182 posted on 10/07/2010 1:03:52 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
"The Union is in danger. Turn to the convention in Hartford, and learn to tremble at the madness of its authors. How far will those madmen advance? Though they may conceal from you the project of disunion, though a few of them may have even concealed if from themselves, yet who will pretend to set the bounds to the rage of disaffection? Once false step after another may lead them to resistance to the laws, to a treasonable neutrality, to a war against the Government of the United States. In truth, the first act of resistance to the law is treason to the United States. Are you ready for this state of things? Will you support the men who would plunge you into this ruin?

No man, no association of men, no state or set of states has a right to withdraw itself from this Union, of its own accord. The same power which knit us together, can only unknit. The same formality, which forged the links of the Union, is necessary to dissolve it. The majority of States which form the Union must consent to the withdrawal of any one branch of it. Until that consent has been obtained, any attempt to dissolve the Union, or obstruct the efficacy of its constitutional laws, is Treason--Treason to all intents and purposes.

Any other doctrine, such as that which has been lately held forth by the ‘Federal Republican’ that any one State may withdraw itself from the Union, is abominable heresy – which strips its author of every possible pretension to the name or character of Federalist.

We call, therefore, upon the government of the Union to exert its energies, when the season shall demand it – and seize the first traitor who shall spring out of the hotbed of the convention of Harford. This illustrious Union, which has been cemented by the blood of our forefathers, the pride of America and the wonder of the world must not be tamely sacrificed to the heated brains or the aspiring hearts of a few malcontents. The Union must be saved, when any one shall dare to assail it.

Countrymen of the East! We call upon you to keep a vigilant eye upon those wretched men who would plunge us into civil war and irretrievable disgrace. Whatever be the temporary calamities which may assail us, let us swear, upon the altar of our country, to SAVE THE UNION." -- Richmond Enquirer, November 1814.

184 posted on 10/07/2010 1:13:04 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Hey mo-joe! Here's another one for your collection.)
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To: SeekAndFind
If we do not appeal to that, then all we can do is appeal to whoever has the most weapons.

The problem with your theory is that it was the South which chose to initiate "an appeal to arms." The CSA had been very precisely informed that Ft. Sumter would be forced to surrender in a few days anyway for lack of provisions.

Despite this fact, they chose to initiate combat. The basic reason is so simple and obvious that it seems to not be paid much attention.

In April of 1865 seven states had seceded. There were eight more slave states in the upper south and border. Lincoln and many in the north believed, rightly or wrongly, that a long stalemate would lead to a rebound of unionist sentiment.

It seems Confederate leaders agreed. They chose to start the fighting, gambling most or all of the "states on the fence" would join them when forced to choose a side.

Virginia and other upper south states reacted with calls for secession as soon as news of the firing on Sumter arrived. Though they used it as their claimed reason, this reaction occurred before Lincoln's call for troops to repress insurrection.

Had all eight unseceded slave state supported the Union, the war would have been short and one-sided. Had all joined the CSA, it would have won, as Lincoln himself said.

In fact, they split 4 and 4, which ensured a long, bloody war.

186 posted on 10/07/2010 1:33:54 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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