Hearing set for soldier in Obama birth certificate case

CNN ^ | August 6, 2010 8:56 a.m. EDT | By the CNN Wire Staff

[Jonah Vark]

A court hearing is scheduled for Friday in the case of an Army officer who has refused to deploy to Afghanistan because, in his view, President Barack Obama has not proven that he was born in the United States and is therefore ineligible to be president.

[Drew68]

According to Hawaii statutes could a long form birth certificate have been requested instead of a short form?

I dunno. There's been many requests on these countless eligibility threads for a Hawaiian native, any Hawaiian native to request from Hawaiian State officials a certified copy of their long form just to see if this can be done. So far, no Hawaiian native has taken on this challange.

[philman_36]

It is HIS signature...
That is a stamp, not a signature. It is a facsimile of a signature.
It's legally binding, but it isn't a signature. That requires the person to actually sign their name.
Does the expression "rubber stamp" ring any bells?

[jamese777]

According to Hawaii statutes could a long form birth certificate have been requested instead of a short form?

---

According to Janice Okubo, Director of Communications for the Hawaii Department of Health, no, not since the state went “paperless” with the digitization of vital records back in 2001.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2266086/posts

I am guessing that a copy of an original document could be provided under subpoena for the original if the authenticity of the short form’s data is in question in a legal proceding. But I am not a lawyer and that is just a layperson’s supposition on my part.

[Drew68]

Already debunked by numerous sources.

Not convincingly

You’ve been debunked numerous times on this issue here at FR. Go back to DU.

No thanks. I think I'll stick around awhile.

[jamese777]

That is a stamp, not a signature. It is a facsimile of a signature.
It’s legally binding, but it isn’t a signature. That requires the person to actually sign their name.
Does the expression “rubber stamp” ring any bells?

---

So you think that the Registrar of Records for the state of Hawaii should be required to personally sign every vital record in order for it to be valid. Interesting.
I would think that since Dr. Onaka is still serving in that position, a notarized statement from him or a deposition taken under oath would suffice.

[allmendream]

Yes, that was exactly what I was thinking. Some government form or FOIA request that would set the wheels in motion.

The mechanism whereby you request proof of birth from Hawaii DOH gets you nothing further than the “short form” computer printout; and I would hope we are in agreement about that - as that is what you get when you pay your $12 and fill out their form.

I included “vital” interest for exactly that reason. Me being ‘interested’ in it is NOT enough. There are people deemed to have a ‘vital interest’ in the document.

[philman_36]

I dunno.
Well could you read the statute I posted in reply 56 and give me your impression, or even your opinion, as to whether or not such a request could have been made?
Surely you have an opinion besides simply "I dunno".
Doesn't it appear at face value, based upon what the law says, that such a request could have been made and would have been honored?

[Drew68]

Surely you have an opinion besides simply "I dunno".

I'm not a Hawaiian native. I don't know what their policies are.

Certainly there's got to be at least *one* Hawaiian native on the birther side of things who would take up this challenge --if only to show how easy it would be for Obama to provide a certified copy of his long form, don't you think?

Why hasn't any Hawaiian come forward with at least a redacted State-issued copy of his long form birth certificate?

[jamese777]

Yes, that was exactly what I was thinking. Some government form or FOIA request that would set the wheels in motion.
The mechanism whereby you request proof of birth from Hawaii DOH gets you nothing further than the “short form” computer printout; and I would hope we are in agreement about that - as that is what you get when you pay your $12 and fill out their form.

I included “vital” interest for exactly that reason. Me being ‘interested’ in it is NOT enough. There are people deemed to have a ‘vital interest’ in the document.

---

The state of Hawaii’s laws use the term “tangible interest”. Here’s the law. Point 9 is the one you’re looking for.

§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

(1) The registrant;

(2) The spouse of the registrant;

(3) A parent of the registrant;

(4) A descendant of the registrant;

(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;

(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;

(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;

(8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;

(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;

(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;

(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;

(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and

(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.

(c) The department may permit the use [of] the data contained in public health statistical records for research purposes only, but no identifying use thereof shall be made.

(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

(e) The department may permit persons working on genealogy projects access to microfilm or other copies of vital records of events that occurred more than seventy-five years prior to the current year.

(f) Subject to this section, the department may direct its local agents to make a return upon filing of birth, death, and fetal death certificates with them, of certain data shown to federal, state, territorial, county, or municipal agencies. Payment by these agencies for these services may be made as the department shall direct.

(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;

(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities;

(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency’s or organization’s activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;

(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or

(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes.

[philman_36]

So you think that the Registrar of Records for the state of Hawaii should be required to personally sign every vital record in order for it to be valid.
I never said that. I merely corrected your assertion that a signature was on the paper.
And now you're trying to put words in my mouth, as it were.
Interesting.
There is no signature there and only a rubber stamped facsimile of a signature. You haven't denied it nor corrected your previous assertion.

[philman_36]

Oklahoma firecracker takes on Obama eligibility
Some information I'm willing to bet both of you are already familiar with.

If you ask for the Full Monty you get it.

[philman_36]

The mechanism whereby you request proof of birth from Hawaii DOH gets you nothing further than the “short form” computer printout...
Well, as you said...show me! Show me that there isn't some form of some type that you can file which will get you the long form.

[allmendream]

Nope, not at all familiar with it, and nowhere does it say she requested and received a copy of the long form from Hawaii DOH (let along the mechanism whereby she did so). Nope, the article says they are ORIGINALS (presumably issued at the time of birth).

She also incorrectly states that the 0bama short form doesn't list a location. It says Honolulu.

[allmendream]

Don't ask someone to prove a negative. It makes you look uneducated. ;)

Can you please tell me how I can “show you” that there “isn't” something? Can I show you that there are not any unicorns? No. I can only say that there is no evidence of such, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Drew68]

If you ask for the Full Monty you get it.

Can you show me a recent, State-issued certified copy of a Hawaiian long form?

[philman_36]

Nope, not at all familiar with it...
You weren't in the "To" field. There seems much on this subject that you're not familiar with.

She also incorrectly states that the 0bama short form doesn't list a location. It says Honolulu.
Which hospital, not city.

[philman_36]

Don't ask someone to prove a negative.
But...but...I learned it from you!

[bvw]

I must say you are no patriot, and a idiot to boot. And that’s only what I must say ...

[philman_36]

Can you show me a recent, State-issued certified copy of a Hawaiian long form?
Ohhhh...you specified "recent". Nice! You're a niggler!
I can't, personally, but that doesn't mean that one is not around.

[bvw]

Judge Land and the 400 Prophets can make all the rulings they wish to ... the truth begs to differ.