[Glenn]

America was founded on Christian Principles

I keep reading this argument. It is 2009. A lot of things have changed in 300 years. It makes sense that some things become secular in the face of that.

Established memorials are no different than historic buildings. They should remain as they are and not be subjected to removal, I believe. Going forward, allow for memorials that celebrate the remembered in some other way than their religious beliefs.

[narses]

“It makes sense that some things become secular in the face of that.”

Why? Time erases Eternal Truth?

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

America was founded on Christian Principles

I keep reading this argument. It is 2009. A lot of things have changed in 300 years. It makes sense that some things become secular in the face of that.

Established memorials are no different than historic buildings. They should remain as they are and not be subjected to removal, I believe. Going forward, allow for memorials that celebrate the remembered in some other way than their religious beliefs.

Fine theory you've got there. But you see, there is this little problem. Actually, two problems. For one thing, governments print money, and it is important to governments for its currency to be perceived to have value. Consequently, currency generally does make reference to a deity.

Secondly, there is the finality of death, from which perspective nothing secular is of any value whatsoever. In that context, nothing but a religious symbol can have any pretense of meaning.

[Cvengr]

Established memorials are no different than historic buildings.

Actually, they are different, but if they were identical, then the particular cross should be maintained exactly as erected with Federal Dollars and placed on the Historical Register.

Their difference lies in the intent and implicit contract made in their establishment. Memorials, including headstones on a grave in a cemetery, are erected and contracted by Federal regulation, to be perpetually maintained. They are maintained because an agreement between the nation and the person memorialized is being fulfilled in that memorial.

If they are not maintained, then the federal government has been negligent in fulfilling its promise to memorialize the person so recognized, hence no longer a memorial.

BTW, anybody offended by the Cross, will not be satiated by its removal, but will further degenerate into demanding respect only for their beliefs. The Cross, unlike modern day Judaism or Islam emphasizes Perfect Eternal Judgment. Those who have a problem with the Cross, have a problem with Judgment and Justice. Some believe they do not need redemption, and God will simply overlook unrighteousness because of something good they might perform, or they believe God will only accept them by their future righteousness in something they seek or perform, but in both cases they fail to find a Perfect Righteousness that may be offered for expiation, redemption, and atonement for any type of sin, which resulted in an initial separation from God's fellowship in perfect righteousness and perfect justice, i.e. His Perfect Holiness.

The bottom line here is that any person offended by the meaning of the Cross has deeper problems with Justice. If our Supreme Court fails to honor the basics of Justice, then they also become part of our national problem with virtue.

[markomalley]

Going forward, allow for memorials that celebrate the remembered in some other way than their religious beliefs.

So when do you think that the ACLU will go after headstones (paid for with US tax dollars, unlike the vast majority of war memorials)?

Please see:

EMBLEM
01	CHRISTIAN CROSS
02	BUDDHIST (Wheel of Righteousness)
03	JUDAISM (Star of David)
04	PRESBYTERIAN CROSS
05	RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CROSS
06	LUTHERAN CROSS
07	EPISCOPAL CROSS
08	UNITARIAN CHURCH/UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST ASSOCIATION
09	UNITED METHODIST CHURCH
10	AARONIC ORDER CHURCH
11	MORMON (Angel Moroni)
12	NATIVE AMERICAN CHURCH OF NORTH AMERICA
13	SERBIAN ORTHODOX
14	GREEK CROSS
15	BAHAI (9 Pointed Star)
16	ATHEIST
17	MUSLIM (Crescent and Star)
18	HINDU
19	KONKO-KYO FAITH
20	COMMUNITY OF CHRIST
21	SUFISM REORIENTED
22	TENRIKYO CHURCH
23	SEICHO-NO-IE
24	CHURCH OF WORLD MESSIANITY (Izunome)
25	UNITED CHURCH OF RELIGIOUS SCIENCE
26	CHRISTIAN REFORMED CHURCH
27	UNITED MORAVIAN CHURCH
28	ECKANKAR
29	CHRISTIAN CHURCH
30	CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE
31	UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST
32	HUMANIST EMBLEM OF SPIRIT
33	PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH (USA)
34	IZUMO TAISHAKYO MISSION OF HAWAII
35	SOKA GAKKAI INTERNATIONAL - USA
36	SIKH (KHANDA)
37	WICCA (Pentacle)
97	CHRISTIAN SCIENTIST (Cross & Crown)	Not shown because of copyrights.
98	MUSLIM (Islamic 5 Pointed Star)	Not shown because of copyrights.

But back to memorials, do you realize that almost all of the war memorials have been erected using private funding?

For example, the WWI Memorial. "Erected in 1931, it was paid for by private funds raised through a campaign led by Frank B. Noyes, president of the Associated Press and the Washington Evening Star."

Or you have the WWII Memorial. It was funded primarily by private contributions: $197M out of $213M.

Or you have the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. It was funded primarily by vets and entirely by private funds.

Now what makes the difference?

Peoples' money is what makes these memorials happen. Not government money. The majority of what government does is provide the land upon which the memorial stands. Since it is peoples' money and not government money, as long as it does not denigrate somebody else's religion, the fact that an almighty is acknowledged shouldn't be offensive. (If government money is used, then I can agree that the memorial shouldn't get into the business of religion one way or the other...as long as, in leaving the subject alone, they don't have to alter history. For example, if there was a memorial to the military chaplains who sacrificed their lives, and such a memorial was funded with government funds, it would be insane not to have the symbols of the religions represented by those chaplains displayed prominently on such a memorial)

You know, I wonder when the ACLU is going to sue the CIA and demand that they remove the Scriptural quote on the wall of the OHB lobby.