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To: ConservativeMind; nuconvert
At the time of peak incidence, which if I remember the John Jay University report, was late 60's - early 80's, some 60% of bishops transfered "credibly accused" priests to new parishes, often after some kind of therapeutic sojourn at one of those attitude-adjustment centers in New Mexico or Maryland, but without later warning the new parish of previous accusations or counseling/therapy history.

I was shocked, sickened by this, and thought then (and still think now) that this is horribly irresponsible AND criminal.

Especially since most child-abusers seem to be serial abusers (there don't seem to be many one-off cases of child abuse) it suggests life imprisonment as an appropriate response. (Whatever happened to penal exile, e.g. to Botany Bay?)

On the American scene, I see no evidence of prosecuting attorneys going after, for instance, any metropolitan School District's correspondance files and personnel records over the past 60 years so they can comb them for evidence of malfeasance. Hofstra University Researcher Charol Shakeshaft --- Google that name and you'll get tons of information --- not only found a higher incidence of abuse percentage-wise in pubic schools than in Catholic institutions, but found the level of vigilance and safeguards far lower.

(From School Reform News:)

"A few years ago, for example, a review of 412 teachers hired by the Cleveland, Ohio school district disclosed only 26 had undergone required background checks. Not only did 192 school employees have felony convictions, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported, but 27 of them had three or more."

Evidence of cover-up? Who needs to cover up if nobody is looking?

At least in the last 15 years, Catholic schools/churches is the US have developed the most comprehensive level of background-checks, child-protective measures and supervision of any youth-related services in the world. I expect the Irish church has done, or will do, the same.

I wonder if we'll ever see that level of oversight in the public schools, youth programs, detention centers, and foster care?

62 posted on 05/20/2009 12:27:16 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets." - Isaac Asimov)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Especially since most child-abusers seem to be serial abusers (there don’t seem to be many one-off cases of child abuse) it suggests life imprisonment as an appropriate response. (Whatever happened to penal exile, e.g. to Botany Bay?)

Well said.

At least in the last 15 years, Catholic schools/churches is the US have developed the most comprehensive level of background-checks, child-protective measures and supervision of any youth-related services in the world. I expect the Irish church has done, or will do, the same.

I wonder if we’ll ever see that level of oversight in the public schools, youth programs, detention centers, and foster care?

I would hope all such environments do the same as you have mentioned is being done in Catholic environments.

Sadly, whatever cover ups or lack of checking has been done at the local public school level, that is as far as any of that can go. There is no one in another country or at the national level noting these things and then not turning them into authorities nor taking them out of the private environment, when the Catholic church bishops and above are involved.

Surely there were people at the local level in these Catholic environments that were trying to keep things quiet, just as with some local school administrators, but when the trash hits the fan at the level above a school administrator, it becomes public and legal proceedings occur. In the Catholic church, it is just another level to obfuscate, some of which makes it to the next level, which is obfuscated more, then finally to the Vatican itself which assures it is all finally obfuscated and allowed.

This is the corruption of the hierarchy of the Catholic church that cannot be fixed in any normal way. This does not reflect on individual church attenders save for the fact that they are supporting their hierarchy through their attendance and monies. This is unfortunate, as I believe most to be nothing like the bad example of their leaders.


67 posted on 05/20/2009 12:55:07 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (The UN has never won a war, nor a conflict, but liberals want it to rule all militaries.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I'm sorry, I left out HTML tags and that made my post hard to read. Here we go:

Especially since most child-abusers seem to be serial abusers (there don’t seem to be many one-off cases of child abuse) it suggests life imprisonment as an appropriate response. (Whatever happened to penal exile, e.g. to Botany Bay?)

Well said.

At least in the last 15 years, Catholic schools/churches is the US have developed the most comprehensive level of background-checks, child-protective measures and supervision of any youth-related services in the world. I expect the Irish church has done, or will do, the same.

I wonder if we’ll ever see that level of oversight in the public schools, youth programs, detention centers, and foster care?

I would hope all such environments do the same as you have mentioned is being done in Catholic environments.

Sadly, whatever cover ups or lack of checking has been done at the local public school level, that is as far as any of that can go. There is no one in another country or at the national level noting these things and then not turning them into authorities nor taking them out of the private environment, when the Catholic church bishops and above are involved.

Surely there were people at the local level in these Catholic environments that were trying to keep things quiet, just as with some local school administrators, but when the trash hits the fan at the level above a school administrator, it becomes public and legal proceedings occur. In the Catholic church, it is just another level to obfuscate, some of which makes it to the next level, which is obfuscated more, then finally to the Vatican itself which assures it is all finally obfuscated and allowed.

This is the corruption of the hierarchy of the Catholic church that cannot be fixed in any normal way. This does not reflect on individual church attenders save for the fact that they are supporting their hierarchy through their attendance and monies. This is unfortunate, as I believe most to be nothing like the bad example of their leaders.

72 posted on 05/20/2009 1:12:42 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (The UN has never won a war, nor a conflict, but liberals want it to rule all militaries.)
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