I have $2,000 to spend, looking to buy myself a nice Christmas present....

[Joiseydude]

Looking to buy a semiauto assualt type rifle chambered in either .223 or .308. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Availability of recommended rifle would be a plus, don't want to be put on a waiting list, already have a NJ firearms card to buy rifles and shotguns. Thanks

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Firearms? A nice 5.56 chambered rifle, ammo is cheap and will always be plentiful. Forget the stuff about “stopping power” - placement is king, capacity is queen, stopping power is a lowly duke. A decent hit with a 5.56 will kill or at least stop a BG.

Get an AK-47 style 5.56 - reliable as can be, and plenty accurate out to 50-75 yards with the iron sights (you don’t plan on getting into a shooting match beyond that, do you? That’s GTFO range). And pick up 10-12 extra 30 round magazines, and a few thousand rounds. Should set you back around $1200 complete.

Then go get a modern high capacity 9mm semi-auto pistol. Again, a 9mm will stop a man as well as a 40 or 45. Shot placement is king, and the smaller bullet not only makes high capacity obvious (over the 45s), but lighter recoil means faster followups for accurate use of that capacity. And the availability of 9mm ammo is huge - boxes of 100 for $20 at Walmart, every sporting goods store will have it in stock.

Remember: most gunfights occur at a distance of less than 20 feet, and even trained military and police miss with 70%+ of their shots. Capacity and accuracy win the day, especially if you only hit 20-30% of the time. The confident man will assume he’ll hit a better ratio; the wise man will assume worse. The dead man will assume he’ll always hit.

Anyway, get a good semi-auto 9mm; I’m partial to the current S&W Sigma 9s. The ones from the early/mid 90s had problems, but since 1999 and on they’re rock-solid. Because of the early reliability issues, they acquired a reputation, and thus are considerably lower cost than the equivalents from Springfield, Beretta, FN, etc. Right now, there’s a buy-a-Sigma get a pair of extra magazines for free deal. And having 17 rounds loaded and another 48 (3 more mags) on hand to hurl at the BG is a nice feeling.

Should be able to get the Sigma for $350. So that leaves you with plenty to buy more ammo, a good gun cleaning kit, shooting accessories (hearing protectors, glasses), and then spend lots of time at the range learning your firearms.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

I absolutely LOVE my Kel Tec SU-16B. Folding stock - cannot fire when folded (trigger and hammer fold). A short 16” barrel, carries two 10 round magazines in the stock, takes all AR-15 magazines (I have a mix of 20 and 30 round magazines, based upon a potential need to use when prone).

The sights are plenty accurate out to 100-150 yards, and the integral bipod is fabulous.

Best of all - the firearm weighs 4.5 POUNDS unloaded; add in a 30 round magazine in the well and the two 10 rounders in the stock and I’m right around 6 pounds complete. In a short carbine that folds in half (down to 24” length).

Extremely reliable - got 1800 rounds through it with just one FTF (primer was installed sideways on some surplus ammo!). And it’s accurate - I can group 10 shots within 2 MOA if I take my time.

Great little camp/pack/truck rifle that can hang with the big boys when needed. Only drawback? The barrel steel is a bit thinner than true “assault rifle” designs, so it does start to warm up if you run more than 45-60 rounds through it in 2-3 minutes, enough that accuracy starts to suffer. Most I ever burst through it was 60 rounds in just under a minute, and I ended up with 6 to 7 MOA groups. Match-winning? No, but still good enough to put lead into the center of a man at 100 yards. So heat will degrade accuracy, but it’s still good enough.

Keep the rate down to 10-15 rounds a minute though, and you can shoot as long as your ammo supplies lasts without worry. Great little varmit rifle!

[AnAmericanMother]

I wish it were true that 9mm and .223 had the 'stopping power' of .45 and .308 or .30'06 . . . would be so much more convenient.

There's a reason that .223 is considered marginal for deer (you better get a solid neck shot), and is in fact illegal in many states. Our whitetails are small, and you won't get a shot here over 100 yards and 30-50 yards is more likely, but it's still a bad idea.

Even taking into account the question of divine intervention, remember that the Pope took 2-3 solid hits in the abdomen with a 9mm and walked away.

[Mr Rogers]

Yes. I’m advocating we all run around, killing people left and right.

Damn! You ARE stupid!

[Charles Martel]

It's got more felt recoil than a 7mm Mag or my dad's .348 Winchester -- plus it's painful! I don't think the stock lines up straight, so that one corner is always digging into your shoulder.

Ouch. I've only fired a few rounds of 7mm Mag through a friend's rifle - never owned one myself. I *do* however, still have my dad's Winchester 71, so I know about the .348, and the Winchester version of the "recoil concentrator".

Evey time I think about taking that one to the range, I recall a story by Patrick McManus about his childhood, when he borrowed a hunting rifle from a neighbor. His first experience with the gun's recoil convinced him that he'd been struck by lightning.

The Jungle Carbine is like the M44 carbine in another way - muzzle flash. I think some of that ammo was loaded in a Chinese fireworks factory.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I’m not stupid. I’m just pointing out that your too-cute statement: “If you have enough lead, you can always get gold...” is simply flippant advocacy of armed robbery or murder.

You might not be joking, but how many in today’s society might actually think that is a viable strategy?

[Mr Rogers]

What? Did I fail to post a large, flashing “JOKE” in the post?

Get a grip, and then a life!

[SuziQ]

Ping to help out a Freeper with a firearms purchase!

[AnAmericanMother]

My dad used to bet friends they couldn't keep their footing while firing the .348 standing. So far as I know he never lost the bet - some folks actually wound up sitting down. (The secret is to round your shoulders and lean well forward into the recoil, but nobody knows that going in.)

The Model 71 is a great rifle, but expensive to feed. For a handy brush-busting gun that will knock down a boar or a small bear, though, you can't beat it.

Dad bought it for Mom when they were planning to hunt Kodiak bear in Alaska. He was looking at a .375 H&H for himself, but they turned up pregnant with me instead.

Every so often Dad looks at me sadly and asks, "Why couldn't you have waited until after I bought the .375?"

Talking about muzzle flash, the .455 Webley beats 'em all in that regard. Great gouts of orange fire 2-3 feet long out of the muzzle AND in all directions out of the forcing cone. People at the range stop and stare.

The "flash hider" on the jungle carbine is as useless as bosoms on an owl.

[Gunner9mm]

Go to www.americanspiritarms.com. Get an AR15 in .223 for $975 (plus shipping etc). They have them available immediately. I just bought the M4 model. Excellent gun.

[Joiseydude]

Go to www.americanspiritarms.com

This Site Is Under Construction and Coming Soon.

[antiRepublicrat]

I'm sorry, but that looks like something out of Buck Rogers in the Twenty-Fifth Century.

That's why I'm not to sure about it, although the specs and features are impressive. Enfields are always sweet though.

[AnAmericanMother]

The Enfields just keep on going and going. I think it was George MacDonald Fraser who said he didn't know what the Wild Men of the World were going to do when the last Lee-Enfield wore out.

Actually, of course, what they do is make copies right down to the broad arrow stamps and serial numbers and sell them in the bazaar. They're pretty good copies, so long as the steel is good, not that I'd risk it . . ..

[300winmag]

Since you specifically said, "$2000 and .223 or .308", I won't comment on other suggestions, all of which have great merit themselves.

If this is your first-and-only rifle, I would definitely go with something in 5.56mm NATO, and with good optics on it. It's the red-dot electronic sight that has given the American grunt unprecedented first-round kills, even in an ambush situation. Surviving terrorists said they were amazed at how fast the Americans swarmed them, and how accurate the rifle fire was, with so many of their comrades in terror dying from headshots.

Get a quality M4 clone, and spend the extra money for an Eotech or Aimpoint electronic sight. This will leave you with about $500 left for ammo and mags.

If you want to spend the whole $2K on the weapon, I'd recommend the SiG 556 SWAT. Sell the mediocre electronic sight that comes with it for $100, and put on an Eotech, like this.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

I'd suggest going and reading at Warrior Talk, an online forum for those active in the LE/Military/Personal Security communities.

For every example of a person walking away from being shot with a 9mm wound, there's an example of someone walking away with a 10mm or 45 wound. The reality is that a shooting victim does not get blown over as shown on TV or the movies; bad guys, if motivated, keep coming until they are incapacitated (head/throat/thigh shots are good to stop that). Not motivated, even a graze to the arm will send them running. A man with a pulped heart can still actively engage for 15 seconds or more, whether that heart was pulped with a 9mm or a 45.

Stopping power really comes behind shot placement and capacity. Shoot your target to the ground - do not stop until they are on the ground. Whether that is 1 round or 10, you keep firing until they are down. That takes capacity, especially factoring in the misses that will inevitably happen.

Personally, I will take - and recommend - capacity any day. IMHO, better to have 100 rounds of a "weaker" caliber than 60 of a heavy caliber. And that is often the trade-off. A full-size 9mm frame pistol can hold up to 20 rounds; about the largest capacity you can get in 45 is the G21 at 13. Personally I will take the 50% greater capacity, knowing that I will miss at least half the shots I fire.

[QBFimi2]

>> I am very disappointed at the NRA’s failure to do anything to stop the 2008 election disaster. Why give them more money?

Yeah, maybe you’re right. Why don’t we all just give up our guns BEFORE the coming administration confiscates them? That’s what my uncle did in the U.K., only to watch hot home invasions in his little town go up 300% within 4 years.

My wife and I are Florida residents and own a vacation home in Colorado. As you may know, they were both critical states in the election. At both addresses we were inundated with NRA anti-O’Banna ads and encouragements to vote. Although we are both NRA Training Counselors, note I had other suggestions - GOA and JPFO. Pick one - any one - but just be resigned to giving up the 2nd Amendment if you do nothing.

And, for that matter, what did YOU do in the last election? How many people did you talk to? Did you volunteer for any grassroots organizations?

[glorgau]

I propose some Carbon Credits for struggling Chinese prison laborers.

[Eagle Eye]

I have to smile when I see posts like yours.

IMO too many guys going after the high end name brand stuff that may only marginally outperform more run of the mill items, then neglecting to have ammo.

Although I have a paraordnance .45, my old essex gov’t model is probably the one I’d really choose...and it cost less than half of the para, shoots as precise as I can, and wouldn’t be as picky about dirt as the para. PLUS...it takes regular magazines instead of the double stack para.

And right now I’d rather have a few 7400’s and PLENTY of ammo than one $$$ golly gee whiz newfangled space age battle rifle.

And right now I’d rather have several .38 sp/.357’s than one $$$ kimber.

But that’s just me...and the fact that I DO NOT have $2000 to spend on myself this Christmas!

[pabianice]

And, for that matter, what did YOU do in the last election? How many people did you talk to? Did you volunteer for any grassroots organizations?

Gave money. Used the phone. Posted on the web. Talked to people. Bought another gun and ammo. Unfortunately, MA still went for B. Hussein 66-31. Sigh.

[calex59]

Good old Enfield, smoothest, fastest bolt action ever made. In WWI the Germans thought the British were using machine guns in several areas but all they were facing was the .303 Enfield, worked by experts!