Posted on 12/01/2008 6:12:55 AM PST by Abathar
How do soldiers come to terms with having taken a life in combat? Research has suggested that when people consider themselves to be “good” but are forced to do something “bad” to others, they adopt negative opinions about their victims to rationalize their actions. But according to a new study, this tendency may not apply to soldiers or at least not to those who have served in the Iraq War. American soldiers who have killed in Iraq do not think more poorly of Iraqis than Iraq War soldiers who have not killed—they do, however, think worse of Americans who speak out against the war.
Wayne Klug, a psychologist at Berkshire Community College, asked 68 Iraq War veterans about their experiences, their thoughts on the war and their opinions about Iraqis and Americans. Compared with soldiers who never saw combat and those who witnessed a death but were not involved, veterans who “were directly involved in an Iraqi fatality” were much more likely to consider the war to be beneficial to both countries. The finding is consistent with prior evidence that people tend to value outcomes that require great effort or distress. But although previous research predicts that these soldiers might disparage their victims, investigators were surprised to find that these veterans instead resented Americans whose opinions about the war suggest that their killings may have been unjustified.
This change could be a result of the unique circumstances surrounding the Iraq War. “A clue lies in the political and public nature of a controversial war fought by a volunteer army,” says Klug, who presented his findings in August at the annual conference of the American Psychological Association in Boston. For example, in the Vietnam War soldiers were drafted, and people who avoided serving were viewed with suspicion, he explains. But today the situation is reversed.
“The veterans are aware of their status as the ‘stepchildren’ of polite American society, a sense that’s enhanced by their abysmal treatment upon returning,” he posits. Because America’s decision to go to war was the sole reason these soldiers killed, they “now depend on that policy to justify their actions,” Klug believes. Those who disagree with the policy, then, become automatic enemies.
You're right on Colonel. Glad to see that someone on this forum gets it, when it comes to why we served in the military.
I subscribed to Scientific American back in the 70’s. The magazine just aint what it used to was.
I'm not real sure wht you are trying to sy here, but it seems to me that they are doing a pretty good job of carrying their load in this war.
The Constitution?. Oh, you mean the one under which 0bama’s not qualified to be President? That’s only for Republicans.
I don’t believe there has been a change in a soldier’s attitude about men he has killed in action. I know that America’s assumption that soldiers must demonize the enemy has, is and will always come from America’s “soccor mom” mentality, where violent spectators have an adrenal rush and assume their own maladies are real.
When Christ blessed the Centurion, in Matthew 8:9-10, for having been trained under the same authority (def: standard policies and procedures) that the Centurion trained his men to, the Centurion was a Roman invader. In Christ’s next breath, Matthew 8:11-12, He cursed the “soccor moms” of both sexes who worship heavenly imaginations.
I have slain men and admired their courage in the same breath that I have cursed America’s imaginary excuses for swinging back and forth between the Boy George and Slick Willy Political Prties.
Guilt has been, is and will always be in the eye of the beholder (Matthew 7:3-5,6; 2Peter 2:18-22).
I didn't say they weren't carrying their load. My point was that many of them signed up thinking there was little chance they would see duty much beyond their one weekend a month.
Their reasons for joining likely weren't the same as our troops that signed up for regular military duty full time.
Well Said!
Skid - you are so right. I also read Sci. Am. back in HS and College (also in the 70’s). It used to be a “scientific” journal.
Now, it’s another liberal rag full of pseudo-science written by people (mostly “academics”) whoring for money from the environmental-whacko / global warming teat.
It’s pretty sad!
Tom
"investigators were surprised to find that these veterans instead resented Americans whose opinions about the war suggest that their killings may have been unjustified."
This is a good example of why successful TV networks use ex-players to provide analysis of the games, and not "Professors of Football". I would like to suggest another of the multiple possible reasons for these veteran's resentment.
Other than if you are remote from the battlefield, for instance flying a UAV from Las Vegas, if you have been in a position to kill someone or in a battle situation where killing is taking place, it is very likely that you, and your fellow service members, were in a position to be killed too. In my experience, survivors of these situations are very much aware of the lives their KIA buddies will never live. And, survivors are also aware of all that would have been lost had they themselves been KIA. Therefore, there is resentment of those fellow cititzens who fail to support, or worse, WITHDRAW SUPPORT from those who have survived exposing themselves to this level of risk and sacrifice.
And, you may ask, "What right do those fighters have to demand such support?"
Well, for many of the Vietnam generation (volunteer or draftee), it was this 1961 Inaugural Speech statement by President Kennedy:
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
That’s good and says it all.
One of the kids asked him if he felt sorry for the enemies that he had to kill. He replied quickly and firmly, "No. But I felt sorry for my guys who were hurt and killed."
He gave every appearance that he had examined his own conscience thoroughly and was very comfortable with his actions. If I had seen what he had seen, I'm sure my answer would have been just as quick and firm. If I had seen what the Mideast radicals engage in up close, I am sure that I would answer just as quickly and firmly today.
We shouldn’t shoot the messenger. It’s just the evil of academia on display.Luckily for them brave men are ready to “take a life.”
OK Got it.
When you as a soldier, are pinned down with a hail of bullets and mortar fire, there is only one thought in your mind. The survival of your comrades and you. It is human nature to want to survive. It is hard wired into us. The moment that you have the enemy in your scope,finger on the trigger, your heart pumping so hard you can’t breathe, you can’t second guess the shot. So it comes down to your life or his. When you pull the trigger, yes there is a large amount of hate directed toward your target, but you’re not killing him because you love him. And after the enemy falls embedded in a cloud of red spray, your glad his dead. After the battle, when your sit review what took place,some feel remorse and some celebrate. When I was trained, we trained to feel nothing. No hate, no guilt.Just purpose.This is why a Marine Snipper is the most feared soldier in battle. Five years latter, back in daily civilian life,I found that this to be the best way to survive the horrors of war.
What a load of crap. Where was this nimrod during Vietnam? Those who dodged were considered "morally superior". Those who went were the simple-minded tools of a murdering administration.
“The veterans are aware of their status as the ‘stepchildren’ of polite American society, a sense that’s enhanced by their abysmal treatment upon returning,”
Hogwash. Today's returning vets are receiving better treatment than at any time since World War II. The problem is not mistreatment by mainstream America, the problem is with the snide whispers coming from the "polite American society" that this nitwit hangs out with.
That such mindless drivel can pass as “Scientific Study” says more about the sad state of Academia today, that it does about the psychology of former warriors....
My only regret is we didn’t kill more.
NOT making excuses for those successfully destroyed....
My greatest regret is that we ignored the “Enemy Within” in the United States and they have become the “majority”....
How sick is that?
Well said Colonel. My oath, in essence, was/is to “support and defend the Constitution...against all enemies.... And to obey the orders of the President...and those appointed over me.” And I have repeated that same oath several times in my 22 years of service. I never remember saying, “only if I like him...”
If I have to “give my life”, it will be for the soldiers on my right and left, and to protect my family at home. Not for the CiC. I’m pretty sure that’s the norm, vice the exception, with all who wear our country’s flag on our shoulder.
Navy Senior Chief Petty Officer
-Currently deployed to Iraq
I wwas debating on whether it would be presumptuous of me to post here because my immediate family does not serve in the military. So first I would like to thank you all and your families for the sacrifices you endure.
My father-in-law was the head of a crew on a destroyer in the pacific during WWII, which included many of his buddies. One day they were attacked and most of his crew was killed. I can’t even fathom the horrors he witnessed. In all the time I knew him, which was only around ten years before he died of cncer, I never saw him raise his voice in anger to anyone. He loved his country and his family.
Some people just don’t understand that many, many carrots are and should be used before the stick becomes an option. I don’t believe anyone who reaches the office of the Presidency can ignore the fact that their primary goal is to defend & protect the liberties of America. I’m sure Mr. Obama is very aware of this. As people have said before “those first security briefings are very sobering”. I pray for our military, their families and anyone else who has the guts to step into the dangerous world of international politics. God Bless.
Thanks for your service, Chief. You nailed it. Have a safe holiday season and come home to your family.
Colonel, USAFR
Aye Sir, Can Do! Wait, that’s the SeaBee’s. Ooh-Rah! Nope, Marines. Hoo-Ah! No, that’s Army. Air Power! I think that’s the new Air Force motto.
And, thanks to you as well for your service Colonel. A safe and blessed Christmas and holidy season to all.
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