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Catholic Church Condemns Socialism
The Vatican ^ | 5/15/1891 | The Vatican

Posted on 10/24/2008 9:20:42 AM PDT by VinceASA

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To: VinceASA

The Catholic Church has condemned communism explicitly, but many of the positions of the Catholic Church on social justice and economic rights (excluding abortion) would have, and had have them mislabeled as “socialist” by many of the more anti-catholic posters on FR. For example, the USCCB are strongly in favor of universal, nationalized healthcare. They are also strongly supportive of raising the minimum wage, and comprehensive immigration reform.

The Church strongly condemns the current global capitalist system too, so this is just cherry picking Catholic teaching.


21 posted on 10/24/2008 9:42:08 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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.

So, Jesus was NOT a socialist.

.

22 posted on 10/24/2008 9:47:55 AM PDT by polymuser (God bless and keep America.)
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To: VinceASA
Boy, am I surprised. I am not a Catholic, but I attend a centering prayer group with quite a few Catholics, nuns among them; and they are communists, basically. What they call social justice strikes me as pure communism, and go along with the attendant hatred and envy of the producers, they have it all.

They totally support Chavez and the new communist leader of Bolivia, and everything they do. If a proposed law is out there that punishes businesses, they have the petition, and are collecting signatures.They are totally against private property of any kind, and all the "greedy corporations".It's been pretty shocking, really.

I love a lot of things about the Catholic church, and Father Keating, who teaches centering prayer; but there are just too many Catholics like this for me to join. I just figured that it came from the top. Since it obviously doesn't, where does it come from ?

23 posted on 10/24/2008 9:51:28 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: loveliberty2

In researching Church teachings on the role of government, I found striking similarities to the U.S. Constitution. In addition to the private property teachings, there are more.

The principle of subsidiarity, which is laid out in Rerum Novarum, is consistent with the intended minor role of the federal goverment.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that the role of the state is to “promote and defend” the common good. The common good is defined as:

1. Peace and security (provide for the common defense)
2. Social well-being (promote general welfare)
3. Respect for life and freedom (respect the blessings of liberty)

The items in parens are the three stated goals of the federal constitution contained in the preamble.

Very cool..


24 posted on 10/24/2008 9:53:25 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: VinceASA
The doctrine may state that it opposes "socialism" but the lay ministry and the priests in many areas are not only "socialists" but communist as well.

This is of course limited to my areas of travel to South American, Central America and parts of Indonesia.

25 posted on 10/24/2008 9:58:51 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: ChurtleDawg

ChurtleDawg, please cite your source documents. I don’t doubt you’ve heard this stuff, but it would not reflect official doctrine or magesterial teachings of the Church.

I have the USCCB booklet on voting guidelines. It says the Church favors programs that provide universal ACCESS to health care, not nationalized health care. Big difference.

Also, it is unfortunately not rare for a priest and/or Bishop to run astray of Church doctrine and teachings. Always look for official documents on doctrine and magesterial items.


26 posted on 10/24/2008 9:59:11 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: VinceASA

Let me clarify...universal access to health care does not necessarily mean a state-controled universal health care system. There is a big difference.


27 posted on 10/24/2008 10:02:59 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: VinceASA

Bookmarked


28 posted on 10/24/2008 10:05:27 AM PDT by kidd
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To: VinceASA

for example:

Quadragesimo Anno, Pope Pius XI, 1931 (states and clarifies opposition to pure free market capitalism)

“Just as the unity of human society cannot be founded on an opposition of classes, so also the right ordering of economic life cannot be left to a free competition of forces. For from this source, as from a poisoned spring, have originated and spread all the errors of individualist economic teaching. Destroying through forgetfulness or ignorance the social and moral character of economic life, it held that economic life must be considered and treated as altogether free from and independent of public authority, because in the market, i.e., in the free struggle of competitors, it would have a principle of self direction which governs it much more perfectly than would the intervention of any created intellect. But free competition, while justified and certainly useful provided it is kept within certain limits, clearly cannot direct economic life...”

I encourage you to take a clear look at the entirety of Catholic teaching on these subjects because they are much more nuanced and do not fit clearly on a simple right-left political scale


29 posted on 10/24/2008 10:22:59 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: VinceASA

no, but they do believe, and have stated repeatedly, that every American has a right to health care. A RIGHT. Show me where I am in error.

I am a Catholic and I am not trying to disparage the Catholic Church. I just believe that trying to use Catholic nuanced teachings on social issues should not be converted to political soundbites.


30 posted on 10/24/2008 10:27:43 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: VinceASA

no, but they do believe, and have stated repeatedly, that every American has a right to health care. A RIGHT. Show me where I am in error.

I am a Catholic and I am not trying to disparage the Catholic Church. I just believe that Catholic teachings are nuanced and very wise and should not be cherry picked for political points.


31 posted on 10/24/2008 10:29:13 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: ElkGroveDan

“Now if only the entire clergy would pay attention.”

THAT my dear friend is putting it mildly.

And, that same “now if” must include the principal administrators at American Roman Catholic colleges as well as who they hire as educators.

Just as in public and other private colleges it is from the “educators” that the last two generations have been indoctrinated by Marxists, and from which Catholic “educators” did not escape and were not given the foundations in faith to reject the variants of Marxism they were taught.


32 posted on 10/24/2008 10:34:05 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: ChurtleDawg

I have read that document. It is, in fact an affirmation of Rerum Novarum on its 40th anniversary, thus the name in Latin. In fact, the latter document referenced above in which I quote JPII, was published on 100th anniversary.

I do not agree that an entire encyclical that condems socialism can be categorized as a political soundbite.

You cite is a partial quote of a single paragraph from the document. The remainder goes on to state, right after you cut it off:

“...- a truth which the outcome of the application in practice of the tenets of this evil individualistic spirit has more than sufficiently demonstrated. Therefore, it is most necessary that economic life be again subjected to and governed by a true and effective directing principle. This function is one that the economic dictatorship which has recently displaced free competition can still less perform, since it is a headstrong power and a violent energy that, to benefit people, needs to be strongly curbed and wisely ruled. But it cannot curb and rule itself. Loftier and nobler principles - social justice and social charity - must, therefore, be sought whereby this dictatorship may be governed firmly and fully. Hence, the institutions themselves of peoples and, particularly those of all social life, ought to be penetrated with this justice, and it is most necessary that it be truly effective, that is, establish a juridical and social order which will, as it were, give form and shape to all economic life. Social charity, moreover, ought to be as the soul of this order, an order which public authority ought to be ever ready effectively to protect and defend. It will be able to do this the more easily as it rids itself of those burdens which, as We have stated above, are not properly its own.”

The second half of the paragraph you cite basically goes on to state that there ought to be regulations in place in a free market and that moral charcter needs to pervade in all institutions in order for the system to suceed.


33 posted on 10/24/2008 11:05:55 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: ChurtleDawg

A RIGHT does not necessarily mean state-controlled health care.

Church doctrine and magesterial teachings don’t change. They can be clarified or expanded on, but never changed. When Pope Leo XIII taught in an encyclical that socialism is contrary to Church teachings, that cannot be later refuted.


34 posted on 10/24/2008 11:10:20 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: Red Boots

Red Boots:

The support and political views you cite are unfortunate and do not represent official Church support or views. In many canses, the source of this is often just ignorance of doctrine/magesterial teachings or interjected individualism.

Unfortunately, the Church in Europe and the U.S. is suffering from damage done by members that think they are free to replace Church doctrine and magesterial teachings with their own views of what is “right”. This is apostacy and heresy in some cases. The Church explicity condemns this. However, the Church does not police its teachings.

Feel free to send me a private message if you are truly considering coming home and joining the Church. I can expand on this and get you pointed to the right sources.


35 posted on 10/24/2008 11:23:52 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: Wuli

Amen on the Catholic College point. Out of over 200 in the U.S., only 21 continue to conform to magesterial teachings. I plan to send all three of my children to one of them. A link to the list of faithful colleges can be found at:

http://www.catholichighered.org/TheNewmanGuide/tabid/356/ctl/Details/mid/1225/ItemID/47/Default.aspx


36 posted on 10/24/2008 11:33:40 AM PDT by VinceASA
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To: VinceASA
"No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist". (Pius XI, Quad. Anno, 1931)
37 posted on 10/24/2008 11:40:24 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: VinceASA

There is already universal ACCESS as no one can be turned away from emergency rooms by law. This is one of the myths of the argument ....


38 posted on 10/24/2008 12:08:00 PM PDT by vharlow (http://www.harlowhome.com)
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To: VinceASA

You seem to be missing the point. The Catholic Church’e stance is highly critical of both socialism and capitalism.

The Church is equally against consumerism and individualism.

The Church advocates a third way-—a way that combines private ownership with a mechanism to share the wealth fairly, one that always puts human needs above profit.

G.K. Chesterton called it “distributism”-—which combines features of both socialism and capitalism with basic Christian values, such as the preferential option for the poor.


39 posted on 10/24/2008 12:09:28 PM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: bmwcyle

Ping


40 posted on 10/24/2008 12:15:42 PM PDT by theKid51
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