Posted on 09/02/2008 8:02:53 PM PDT by reaganaut1
TBILISI, Georgia — Just weeks after Georgia’s military collapsed in panic in the face of the Russian Army, its leaders hope to rebuild and train its armed forces as if another war with Russia is almost inevitable.
Georgia is already drawing up lists of options, including restoring the military to its prewar strength or making it a much larger force with more modern equipment, like air-defense systems, modern antiarmor rockets and night-vision devices.
Officials at the Pentagon, State Department and White House confirmed that the Bush administration was examining what would be required to rebuild Georgia’s military, but stressed that no decisions had been made. The choices each pose difficult foreign policy questions.
Georgia’s decision to attack Russian and South Ossetian forces raises questions about the wisdom of further United States investment in the Georgian military, which in any case would further alienate Russia. Not doing so could lead to charges of abandoning Georgia in the face of Russian threats.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
“But South Ossetians will probably never concede that tens of thousands of Ossetians who live peacefully in Georgia proper. Has it ever occurred to them that the notoriously bloodthirsty Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili hasn’t attacked Ossetians in Gori, Tbilisi or Poti, where they are vulnerable and unprotected by South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity?”==
One million of ethnic Georgians live in Russia today. One million! So what? They were not attacked by Russians either but in same time those Georgian troops got mauled in S.Osetia by Russian army.
I think we know the answer now... and besides, even if Kosovo did not happen and Northern Cyprus would have fallen through, it would be very easy to FSB to blow up three buildings, one in Tskhinvali, one say in Krasnodar and one in the outskirts of Moscow to say that Georgian terrorists did this and that would have been enough justification to invade the country... come on, they were already doing it; remember, when a LPG small tank blew up in Gagra this summer everyone was very quick to find “Georgian trail” in this incident, even though local new paper reported this as a household incident... there was rather sarcastic remarks about this on Lenta.ru.... ==
You shouldn’t put up your own speculations as the truth. What if this.. What if that.. Happened is what happened in real..
But in real it was the Georgian regime which decided to quell Osetian resistance by the military force. To do that your army must pass the Russian peacekeepers. So you attacked Russian peacekeeprs means you attacked Russian army batallion. That is the clearest “casus belli”.
If you attack the one country military then you subsequantly declare the war on this country. The consequances fell on your country.
One million of ethnic Georgians live in Russia today. One million! So what? They were not attacked by Russians either but in same time those Georgian troops got mauled in S.Osetia by Russian army.===
Oh, but lots of them were sent out by cargo planes only a year ago and special services were tracking down Georgians using their children in high schools...
I am not passing what ifs for truth! Dude, do you even know what casus belli is?
Russian peacekeepers were attacked by South Ossetians together with ESCE mission on or about August 1, but I do not remember Russia sending troops to stop that! Make your mind - in earlier posts you were saying that Georgia attacked peaceful Russian citizens, now you are saying that they attacked peacekeepers... explain to me, how the hell one could have attacked Russian battalion if it's location was way outside of where Georgian troops were attacking illegal convoy and those gangs? Are you sure your own artillery did not shell them just to justify invasion just like Russians did in Chechnya... And don't even tell me that this is something Russian army would never do! And explain to me that even if what you are saying it true, how does that justifies moving troops across Inguri river and bombing civilian installations in Gori, Poti, Tbilisi, Marneuli and Khelvachauri?
Happened is what happened in real..===
And what happened in real was that Putin was looking to pretext to invade the country and replace Saakashvili (after all failed attempts to do this politically) and he did exactly that... Kosovo Shmosovo... all of that is total load of crap! Did you even read the article I sent you yesterday?
Make your mind - in earlier posts you were saying that Georgia attacked peaceful Russian citizens, now you are saying that they attacked peacekeepers... ==
I made up my mind from start. Georgian military attacked Russian peacekeepers AND S.Osetian civilians which those peacekeepers must defend. It is casus belli.
explain to me, how the hell one could have attacked Russian battalion if it’s location was way outside of where Georgian troops were attacking illegal convoy and those gangs? ==
Nothing to explain. The first georgian shells lay exactly on the peacekeeper base accually on the barrack buildings. Georgians killed few peacekeepers at this moment since they has no order to return fire.
And explain to me that even if what you are saying it true, how does that justifies moving troops across Inguri river and bombing civilian installations in Gori, Poti, Tbilisi, Marneuli and Khelvachauri?==
You mean the georgian soldiers who stationed in those towns? I know that some georgian civilians got under fire. I regret that. They were in wrong place. Say in Gori: those apartment buildings damaged was near Gori military base so got some heat during airraid on the military base.
Moving troops crossed Inguri in chase of the flee georgian troops and gathered trophies. It is OK with me. We must unarm Georgia to precausion the repating this situation.
And what happened in real was that Putin was looking to pretext to invade the country and replace Saakashvili (after all failed attempts to do this politically) and he did exactly that... ==
If he really wanted to do that then Russian troops stayed today in Tbilisi. But Russia accually wanted cut her costs and sametime to continue the “Georgia agony” so to leave Saaki in place. Saaki loves power so he will fight with the georgian opposition. Let them to fight each other:).
Oh, but lots of them were sent out by cargo planes only a year ago and special services were tracking down Georgians using their children in high schools...==
About teh tracking down children was the propaganda fairy tale. But those who overstayed thier visas was expelled. But 1 million still here. I see them each day.
The fact that first shells lay on peacekeepers barracks is a complete lie! The first shells were fired around Tskhinvali and then onto bridge upon exit of Java... the casualties among peacekeepers, even if they occured, did not happen until third day of hostilities when Russians were bombing the hell out of already empty Tskhinvali, so whatever killed them was most likely a “friendly” fire.
So I see what you are saying... it is actually OK to blow up civilian infrustructure as long it is located near military basis. Very bloody civilized! What about that pipeline bombings in the middle of the field. What about blowing up railway bridge in the middle of the AFTER ceasefire agreement? What about bombing civilian port with no military infrastructure?... you have no right to unarm anybody dude - get this into your head! Georgian army is not yours to unarm to do anything about it!
About teh tracking down children was the propaganda fairy tale. ===
WHAT WAS PROPAGANDA fairtale - dude, this was reported by all Russian State Channels - we never had any info on this other than through that!
1 million still there ha? well, ask your neo fascists and nationalists what they want to do about those... have not you seen these folks “punishing”, i.e. decapitating kavkaztsy and Churki?! is not that how you refer to non-Russians, ha?
Georgian army is not yours to unarm to do anything about it!==
Lasha if Georgia want the pace then you do not need the heavy weaponry. But if you want to try to get Abkhazia nd S.Osetia again then you might try. But with no use Georgian army will get beaten again.
If he really wanted to do that then Russian troops stayed today in Tbilisi. But Russia accually wanted cut her costs and sametime to continue the “Georgia agony” so to leave Saaki in place. Saaki loves power so he will fight with the georgian opposition. Let them to fight each other:).===
As long as Russians do not interfere with that fight like they are doing now in Ukraine - I frankly do not give a crap if they fight or cohabite peacefully. And the only reason Russian troops did not reach tbilisi was unprecedented response from US and Western countries - you do not attack a capital when there are heads of EU states present here!
And the only reason Russian troops did not reach tbilisi was unprecedented response from US and Western countries - you do not attack a capital when there are heads of EU states present here!==
Funny:)) DO you really believe in that?! You so naive:).
What “unpresendented response”? Get real Lasha. It was just bla bla. Russia did what she wanted then took the Sarcozi offer which she liked and vu a la. That is all.
Lasha if Georgia want the pace then you do not need the heavy weaponry. But if you want to try to get Abkhazia nd S.Osetia again then you might try. But with no use Georgian army will get beaten again.===
Oh hell we’ll see!
You know what, no one in Georgia wants to retake control of either Abkhazia or S Ossetia by force - that’s absurd dude... and as long as Russians get out of there, I am sure we can negotiate with both of these guys... but as long as you continue threatening Georgia with force, I think we need to be getting more Patriot systems and anti-aircraft and anti-tanke missiles from anyone who would supply us and there are plenty of those who want
Oh no I am not naive - the only naive person believing Russian propaganda here is you! but you are right here... Russia did what she wanted, i.e. gain control over these territories and publish Georgia for what it achieved and its desires - YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY right here, so do not use this Kosovo stupidity next time around me... but it also wanted more and if not for international reactions, it would have done just that!
What “unpresendented response”?==
indeed unprecedented! Don’t you remember when Russian planes intruded Georgian airspace and Russia acknowledged this - it took EU 8 days to issue a lame statement calling onto parties to refrain from provocations... by all means what has happened was an unprecedented... and this is only a beginning!
You know what, no one in Georgia wants to retake control of either Abkhazia or S Ossetia by force - that’s absurd dude... ==
It is not absurd. Georgia tried to do that 2 times during last 17 years. Unsusccessfully so:).
and as long as Russians get out of there, I am sure we can negotiate with both of these guys... ==
We alreday did. Russian tropps returned to thier baracks. Negotiate please but without no bombing Tskhinvall anymore.
but as long as you continue threatening Georgia with force, I think we need to be getting more Patriot systems and anti-aircraft and anti-tanke missiles from anyone who would supply us and there are plenty of those who want==
Its OK. We always may come and take them away from your coward military for free:). Russia will save her money and get fine machinery with Georgia help:).
I strongly recommend that you read something other than Russian propaganda to learn about history of these conflicts before making statements of astronomical absurdity!
We already did. Russian tropps returned to thier baracks. Negotiate please but without no bombing Tskhinvall anymore.===
Really, are you sure you have barraks in Poti, Karaleti, Senaki, Ganmuzhuri or Akhalgori? Russians are violating ceasefire agreement all over the place, as they always did before - that's why Georgian do not want to have anything in common with your rotten state!
Its OK. We always may come and take them away from your coward military for free:). Russia will save her money and get fine machinery with Georgia help:).===
Oh, if you think 1K machine guns, 5 speedboats and a handful of artillery shells is all Georgian army got - YOU ARE VERY MUCH MISTAKEN! As usually, Georgian dropped couple of items to distract your beggar soldiers and they bought the bait! The only thing you really harmed was radars, which are very easily restorable - I know exactly how much it costs and how long it take to install them - and a bunch of runways, which is also not that difficult to restore, especially for light fighters that do not require runways equipped to accept Boeing 777... you dude is also forgetting that Georgia used to be bordering with NATO country during cold war - there are so many concealed runways here you cannot even imagine... obviously your idiotic military new about those, but were to chicken to take on them...
You bring up an interesting point: Russia never gave a damn about S. Ossetian “independence” when it was part of the Soviet Union.
You bring up an interesting point: Russia never gave a damn about S. Ossetian “independence” when it was part of the Soviet Union.==
Naturally because during Soviet times Russia wasn’t independent herself.
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