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To: antiRepublicrat
But it didn't cause an increase in in order, as by definition order decreased. We only appreciate a lattice as order, beauty in the eye of the beholder and such.

OK - you got me on that one. Entropy decreased -- but I said that the 'order increased'. You're right, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'.

Yeah, I'm definitely laying off the Quantum stuff. I actually enjoyed the two courses I took on Quantum Mechanics -- but that was an eon ago (the equivalence of 'billions and billions of years' as far as my gray matter is concerned), and it would definitely make my brain hurt. But with respect to simple chemical reactions - e.g., the formation of the chemical bond between two amino acids requires energy - I have to believe that the 2nd Law still works. That is, 'nature' would have a tendency to 'pop' the bonds (and release the energy), rather than absorb energy to build more bonds .... But if your reference was to sub-atomic particle reactions... I would not be surprised if the 2nd Law didn't apply (just the general law of weirdness and probabilities)...

No, it increases...

Got it

...If you value your sanity and don't like Tylenol, stay away from math PhDs and quantum physicists.

Hah! I can't disagree with you on that point.
Nonetheless, we have to express these equations and processes in words - lest they become no more useful than 'Suduko' puzzles. Mentally stimulating, but pretty useless...You are obviously no dummy, so if your math PhD friends can't explain what these equations/processes mean in English, I'd begin to think that they've crossed the other side into 'useless theory' land (Maybe I'm 'poisoned' because I've spent the last 30 years working in 'High Tech' engineering and if someone can't translate their theory into words they get a public stoning ... In retrospect, I probably should've switched my major to quantum physics)

423 posted on 06/30/2008 9:25:00 AM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: El Cid
But with respect to simple chemical reactions - e.g., the formation of the chemical bond between two amino acids requires energy - I have to believe that the 2nd Law still works.

Man, now you're making me research since I was just going on memory. .... Apparently it starts at the molecular level in systems below a couple picograms.

I'd begin to think that they've crossed the other side into 'useless theory' land

It's these crazy theorists who lay the groundwork for eventual application by guys like you. Twenty years ago ideas of quantum computers and encryption were pretty wacky, and now engineers are starting to work on them.

The problem with English, or any language, is that it isn't precise, it's vague with nuances, etc. Math lets these people communicate in a precise language. You just have to learn the language to be able to understand, but unfortunately that takes years and a lot of smarts. I've met enough dumb history and English PhDs, but I've yet to meet a dumb math PhD.

424 posted on 06/30/2008 9:57:42 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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