Posted on 06/18/2008 2:41:58 AM PDT by Roy Tucker
Britain's House of Lords will debate the Lisbon Treaty for the last time today as it moves to ratify the agreement, despite last week’s Irish referendum No vote.
Officials believe the Treaty could have received Royal Assent by the time Gordon Brown meets European leaders in Brussels tomorrow.
However, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband has admitted that all 27 EU countries must ratify the agreement in order for it to come into force.
France and Germany are thought to be keen to push ahead.
Eurosceptic Tory MP Bill Cash expects to hear today whether his application for judicial review of the treaty will be allowed to proceed.
Mr Cash said he was not challenging Parliament, but seeking a statement from the High Court that the treaty was now “incapable of ratification”.
“The Lisbon Treaty cannot come into force unless every single member state ratifies,” he said.
“The Irish people were asked in a referendum and have answered ‘No’. This is directly binding on the Irish government, they cannot change it.
“This treaty is dead as a parrot. What I’m saying is that the treaty has ceased to have any meaningful effect.”
The Treaty is the latest stage in the European Union’s long-running saga of trying to streamline decision-making following its expansion to 27 members.
Controversial measures in the treaty include the creation of a new permanent president of the European Council, a new foreign affairs representative and the loss of many national vetoes.
Alongside Mr Cash’s bid, millionaire spreadbetting tycoon Stuart Wheeler is awaiting the outcome of a judicial review of the UK Government’s refusal to hold a referendum.
Funny. I think the Lisbon Treaty is like a zombie or Hillary or a Hillary-zombie. It refuses to die.
France and other European countries reject an EU Constitution. Okay, we will reformulate into a treaty. Ireland rejects the treaty. “Okay, we can deal with that,” say the Eurocrats. “Just don’t let our gravy train be over.”
Europe don't recognise the voice of it's people, it views them as just dumb animals and it takes the view that populist opinion among voters leads to leaders like Hitler. That's why the idea of a European empire ruled by only elites who know what's best for us arose after WW11.
The Irish NO vote will be seen as a baby throwing it's toys about the pram that's all, Europe will carry on ignoring it's people regardless.
Believe me, people all over Europe, not just in the UK are going to see the real horror of the overbearing eurocractic empire that they've blindly ignored. Peace comes at the price of eternal vigilance and we've been asleep for at least 30 years.
That is true! The 'masters' in Brussells, after Ireland voted, want the IRISH GOVERNMENT to override the voice of the people.
UK, let the people decide. Let the LISBON TREATY die. The EU is another SOCIALIST Machine to control your life!
“Britain should put this to a referendum. Instead, they intend to ram it through Parliament because they are afraid of the outcome.”
I agree that they are afraid of the outcome, but let me ask this questions of the American posters on this thread:
The US Constitution was not approved by popular referendum. It was approved in the various state legislatures (i.e. parliments). What makes it OK for our Constitution to be approved this way and not the European one?
Anyone have thoughts on this?
I didn’t say it wasn’t okay, just that I don’t think it necessarily reflects the will of the people of Britain.
Because the EU has stated that each country can determine how it will vote on it. In the US, the procedure for ratifying the Constitution was clearly stipulated.
I would also argue that the US constitution is a much more concise document to digest than the 279 page behemoth Portugal treaty. There was far less chance that our legislators were going to pull a fast one on the public in voting for it.
I would also posit that the population of the United States at the time was around 3 million people. The legislatures and legislators were part-timers who often had a much better bead on the will of the people than today’s professional politiicans.
All excellent points Roy Tucker and I agree with you to a very large extent.
However, I’ve always thought that the opposition to the treaty focuses too much on the way it is being ratified rather than the terrible provisions in the treaty/ constitution itself. When the failed constitution vote came up in France a few years back, I attempted to download and read the actual text of the document (By the way, I have yet to meet ANY European who has actually read any of the treaties/constitutions that they have voted on - scary). It was 350 pages of complete gobblygook that nobody (except lawyers) cound understand.
I am so thankful that our US founding documents are readable and understandabble to regular people. If I want an in-depth discussion of what each article or amendment means, I have the very readable Federalist Papers to help me along.
Thanks for your response Roy Tucker!
Yes, we Americans have been blessed by the intelligence and insight into human nature of the Founding Fathers in framing our Constitution. May God always bless America.
I think the concern about process is that it appears to a lot of Europeans that this is being pushed down their throats by their political leaders. Leaders who will undoubtedly benefit by ratification of the treaty compared to the average person who see little benefit to them. I would think that if the average voter in Europe saw benefits in the treaty it would be more obvious and the elite would not need to play these games.
My answer to myself when I asked the question was along the lines of - It isn’t 1785 anymore and comparitively easy to hold nation-wide elections. Its not like the results have to come in by horse messenger.
However, whenever I see these Lisbon-type threads, I tend to see more focus on the how it is being ratified as opposed to the what is in the treaty. You point that the average European voter would be more likely to vote for the thing if they could see benefits is well spoken.
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