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To: spunkets
He just demonstrates the reactions of a hidden person that's haunted by the severely damaging experiences of his upbringing

By severely damaging, you mean that by his perception they were severely damaging. Which ties into your next point.

He had no foundation, or concept of self.

Right. He appropriates all these other people's victimologies as his own. The guy in "Teen Training." The girl whose mom beat her. The guy who called into some show. But when it comes down to detailing the wrongs done to him, he wasn't allowed on a missions trip and some Christians were hypocrites and other Christians didn't answer all of his epistemological questions to his satisfaction and some other Christian kids didn't invite him to their parties. That's not "severely damaging."

The only points of reference he had were bad experiences, accompanied by confusion and contradiction.

He focuses only on confusion and contradiction. It gives him an out. He wants no answers. You could have told him 2+2=4 and he would have said, "maybe to you." He invites contradiction. He is not an innocent bystander witnessing it. He seeks it out.

His dad wasn't around much.

You know this how? It might be a reasonable assumption. But it is an assumption.

They weren't isolated like Murray was and learned how to escape and heal. Murray never got that.

Not everyone wants to heal. Mr. Murray chose to stop therapy (apparently both counseling and pharamacotherapy). He refused help on multiple occasions. He mentions that Christians even tried to help him. He simply views their actions as inadequate. Likewise with the counselor. He clearly thinks he has suffered more than anyone, ever, comparing his suffering to sexual abuse (though he never makes an accusation of sexual abuse). So, it's not anyone's fault that he didn't learn to heal other than his own. He didn't even make a good faith effort. And if you don't make a good faith effort to get well, you must like being sick.

2,399 posted on 12/11/2007 10:36:42 PM PST by the808bass
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To: the808bass

Great analysis!


2,403 posted on 12/11/2007 10:42:51 PM PST by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
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To: the808bass
"By severely damaging, you mean that by his perception they were severely damaging."

No, not by his perception. That's my judgement, as per his demonstration of a complete failure to have any solid concept of self at all.

Re: He had no foundation, or concept of self.

"But when it comes down to detailing the wrongs done to him..."

Apparently you don't understand the concept of self and the foundation of one's personality. Percieved wrongs are irrelevant. Actual wrongs, which were never percieved are relevant. He was never taught to think. He was lost in that dept., because he was never taught anything more than the illogical program content fed to him in the homeschool for 18+yrs. The person that he was and the world he knew disintegrated when he realized it was all falsehoods and his place in the world had been no more than a pawn in that program, a prisoner of all those around him, who had lied to him and kept him prisoner.

Unlike others that find a niche in becoming one of the manipulators in that program, because that's a comfortable out, Murray rejected it all. Others would simply go brain dead and accept it, like folks in the red chinese cultural revolution. Same phenominon. That left him empty. His self worth and entire past was nothing. ~2004 is when he delved into all he knew as an option, which was the M. Mason stuff.

"he wasn't allowed on a missions trip and some Christians were hypocrites and other Christians didn't answer all of his epistemological questions to his satisfaction and some other Christian kids didn't invite him to their parties."

That's irrelevant. Focusing on that simply avoids noting the fundamental problem here, so that the problem can be irrationally presented as evil vs the "Christians".

"He focuses only on confusion and contradiction. It gives him an out."

No. He wanted an out, because all there was is confusion and contradiction.

"He wants no answers."

I didn't see that. What I did see is that he was unable to obtain them.

"He is not an innocent bystander witnessing it."

He was an innocent child that had it all shoved down his throat for 18 years.

Re: His dad wasn't around much. " You know this how? It might be a reasonable assumption. But it is an assumption.

No, it's a fact. The old man was both a pentacostal and a neurologist. He wasn't around much.

"Mr. Murray chose to stop therapy (apparently both counseling and pharamacotherapy). He mentions that Christians even tried to help him.

LOL. From ma's docs and pills? He needed a real psychiatrist, because the damage was significant.

"He clearly thinks he has suffered more than anyone, ever, comparing his suffering to sexual abuse (though he never makes an accusation of sexual abuse)."

What was done to him is similar. In both cases the victim is treated as an object, not a person.

"So, it's not anyone's fault that he didn't learn to heal other than his own."

Yeah, right. That's why schools were established. His homeschooling there didn't work too well. The results prove it. The same goes for other programs.

"He didn't even make a good faith effort. And if you don't make a good faith effort to get well, you must like being sick."

He didn't know how and there was no one competent around to show him. I did note a few moderators on the xpentacostal board told him to get help, but competent help isn't redily available. He needed someone else to do that for him, because w/o a sense of self and no personality the only help he knew was death. That's suicide.

2,416 posted on 12/12/2007 12:10:34 AM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: the808bass

I think you make some valid points well.

I do think you leave out the degree of

ABSOLUTE RAGE AND HOPELESSNESS

that he evidently had to cope with on a daily basis from an early age.

He didn’t ask for that. He didn’t cause that.

But, yeah, he persistently made self-destructive choices in a list of ways. But he didn’t come out of the womb that way.


2,442 posted on 12/12/2007 5:52:58 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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