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Death of Jefferson Davis Remembered - The Christmas of 1889 Was a Sad Time in the South
Accessnga.com ^ | 11/19/07 | Calvin Johnson, Jr.

Posted on 11/19/2007 10:09:26 AM PST by BnBlFlag

Death of Jefferson Davis Remembered - The Christmas of 1889 was a sad time in the South. By Calvin Johnson Jr. Staff Email Contact Editor Print

Jefferson Davis - AuthenticHistory.com December 6th, is the 118th anniversary of the death of a great American Hero---Jefferson Davis.

The "Politically Correct" would have you forget the past...But do not forget the history of the men and women who made the USA great.

Caution, this is a family friendly story to be shared.

The Sons of Confederate Veterans have declared 2008, the "Year of Jefferson Davis." Remembrance events will include the re-opening of "Beauvoir" on Jefferson Davis' 200th birthday---June 3, 2008. This was Davis' last home that was damaged by Hurricane Katrina. The Jefferson Davis Presidential Library and Museum will be rebuilt and re-open about two years after the house. Beauvoir is located on the beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast. See more at: www.beauvoir.org

The New York Times reported the death of Jefferson Davis;

New Orleans, December 8, 1889---Quote "A careful tally of the visitors shows that about 40,000 persons, mostly women and children, viewed the remains today. This crowd included, in solemn and respectful attendance, all conditions of Whites, Blacks, ex-Confederates, ex-Federals, and even Indians and Chinamen." ---Unquote

Davis' Death was also the page 1 story in Dixie;

Excerpt: http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=204067&c=11

(Excerpt) Read more at accessnorthga.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: confederacy; dixie; jeffersondavis; southernheritage
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To: The_Media_never_lie

see post 182


321 posted on 11/20/2007 2:58:23 PM PST by deadmenvote (Time to clean your fire place and guns)
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To: drjimmy
Are you one of those alternative history buffs?

No.

Because you sure are creating a new one.

No, I'm not.

The Great Migration didn't take place until 50 years--half a century--after the end of the Civil War.

I didn't mention any "Great Migration." You did.

In 1900, approximately 90 percent of all blacks still lived in the former slave-holding states.

Kind of destroys the argument that the slave economy was so horrible, doesn't it? After all, why stay down on the plantation when the streets Up No'th are paved with gold?

Detroit's black population in 1910 was all of 6,000, just 1% of the total population.

I used Detroit as a metaphor for ALL the Northern industrial centers. And I never said that only Blacks were serfs in the industrialized North. In fact, I argued just the opposite.

freed slaves who stayed in the south continued to be disenfranchised, once Reconstruction ended and Jim Crow laws were enacted.

Discrimination -- whether codified in the form of Jim Crow laws or exercised de facto as a cultural artifact -- existed, and continues to exist in all parts of the country. To suggest that it is limited to the South is simplistic.

322 posted on 11/20/2007 3:00:00 PM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: investigateworld; PeaRidge

...my g.grandfather got shot in the knee cap at Chickamauga and taken prisoner by Rosecran’s troops...the Yankees put him on a train to Chicago where he did POW hard time at Camp Douglas...he wintered over in’64 and’65 under brutal conditions because the camp was close to Lake Michigan...when they turned them loose some of the men were mad from the way they had been treated and had to be led away....he was gimp-legged and started walking for his home in Lloyd, Fla...he was a Mason and along the way other Masons helped him along...Illinois Masons were especially kind; would feed him; give him rides in their wagons and let him sleep in the hay mow....he made it home, became county sheriff and lived until the early 1920s....my father knew him.


323 posted on 11/20/2007 3:06:10 PM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: BnBlFlag

No one in the south was a traitor! That is just an ignorant statement!


324 posted on 11/20/2007 3:07:15 PM PST by freemike
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To: Non-Sequitur
Actually I'm not overstating at all, and am actually more correct than your post was. The confederate tariff placed a 25% duty on tobacco products. It placed a 25% duty on molasses. A 15% duty on salt and turpentine and any sort of manufactured cotton items. A 15% tariff on iron goods like iron bars, slabs, and castings. All Southern industries. All which had their prices protected by the tariff.

You haven't pointed to any error in my post. The Yale professor was correct, and you are in error.

Yale professor from my earlier post: "molasses ... 20%"

non-seq: It placed a 25% duty on molasses.

Confederate tariff law: molasses 20%

You are confusing a 25% tariff on various items (fruits, sweetmeats, etc.) that were preserved in molasses with the tax on molasses itself. The Yale professor was correct in the 20% figure he cited for the Confederate tariff on molasses.

rustbucket 1; non-sequitur 0. Your proclivity for error is well known.

I trust the analysis of the professor who once held the Chair of Political Economy at Yale as to whether the Confederate tariff removed most of the protection motive or not. It did. He also said, as I clearly quoted, that the protectionist motive was not wholly absent in the tariff.

325 posted on 11/20/2007 3:17:47 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: STONEWALLS
Interesting story: a black-owned funeral home stands on part of what was once Camp Douglas and maintains a memorial to the men who died there, complete with Confederate flag flying at half-staff. Unfortunately, the owners are retiring and will be closing the home at the end of this year. link
326 posted on 11/20/2007 3:21:39 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: wideawake
At the time of the acts of secession, the grievance was that there was a legitimate president-elect who did not sympathize with the pro-slavery agenda.

Bilge. The grievance was that federal military installations on sovereign state soil were being used to enforce an agenda that was not palatable to the locals, in defiance of constitutional protections. Since the federal government had declared itself a hostile entity -- an invading force if you will -- the states felt they had the right to contain federal troops or force them to withdraw. That is what happened at Sumter, although that was only one of many federal forts that were treated similarly.

Read the Acts of Secession of the various states yourself. They make it pretty clear that it was the repeated violations of state sovereignty that motivated them.

327 posted on 11/20/2007 3:25:52 PM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: SmoothTalker

And you are an idiot.


328 posted on 11/20/2007 4:02:21 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: SmoothTalker

I change my mind. You are an idiot AND a moron!


329 posted on 11/20/2007 4:05:05 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: IronJack
You said:
And that's the reason Detroit is in such great shape today ... because all those freed slaves immediately found Eden in the loving arms of Andrew Carnegie and JP Morgan.

I pointed out that the Great Migration occurred a half century after the end of the Civil War because in no actual history of the U.S. did "all those freed slaves immediately" go anywhere near Detroit, Andrew Carnegie, or J.P. Morgan.

You said: Kind of destroys the argument that the slave economy was so horrible, doesn't it? After all, why stay down on the plantation when the streets Up No'th are paved with gold?

Here's where you really get ridiculous. You see, prior to the Civil War, slaves escaped to the north. After the Civil War, when slavery was abolished, they didn't need to escape to the north since they were no longer the property of those genteel southerners. Slave economies are generally pretty good for the slave owners, not so much for the slaves. Point out some poor northern serfs who willingly sold themselves into slavery in the south and you might just have an argument that conditions for workers in both parts of the country were equivalent.
330 posted on 11/20/2007 4:14:26 PM PST by drjimmy
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To: rustbucket
rustbucket 1; non-sequitur 0.

Still a legend in your own mind, I see. Still, the protectionist tariffs on tobacco products, salt, turpentine, etc. were still there. So when you said they did "a pretty good job of sticking by its principles as regards protective tariffs" then I'd still have to ask what principles they had to stick by. At worst, rustbucket 1: Non-Sequitur 1.

331 posted on 11/20/2007 4:34:01 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: drjimmy
Slave economies are generally pretty good for the slave owners, not so much for the slaves.

Then why did the emancipated slaves hang around Dixie for half a century after the War? Inertia? Tradition? A misplaced sense of loyalty to Simon Legree? No, there was work there for them, and many of them had no skills other than manual labor to sell. They were in essence offered the same jobs they had had before Emancipation, only this time, Massa was free to discharge them at will when their mechanized replacement became available. And they had to spend their meager salary to buy their own food, clothing, and shelter, goods and services provided for them, albeit at marginal levels, free of charge before they were "freed."

Point out some poor northern serfs who willingly sold themselves into slavery in the south and you might just have an argument that conditions for workers in both parts of the country were equivalent.

I can point out hundreds of thousands of poor northern serfs who sold themselves into virtual slavery in the North. Every man who worked in subhuman conditions in a packing plant or garment mill or steelworks or mine. Every woman who burned to death at the Triangle Shirtwaist. Every child who picked soybeans for a dollar a week. The labor laws of the 20's didn't come about because the giants of industry took it on themselves to make a benevolent workplace, but because creeping unionism forced them to reassess their oppressive practices in the name of enlightened self-interest. Before those protections were passed, the conditions in Northern factories was little better than those on plantations in the antebellum South.

332 posted on 11/20/2007 4:41:56 PM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: IronJack
Then why did the emancipated slaves hang around Dixie for half a century after the War?

Why do Jews still live in Germany?

333 posted on 11/20/2007 4:53:33 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep; All
Why do Jews still live in Germany?

Because Germany is their ancestral homeland. Because they have homes and businesses and friends there. Because post-war Germany was not nearly so hostile to them as nazi-fied Germany was.

Did a lot of slaves think of the plantation as an ancestral home? Did they have businesses and trades to tend there? Did the collective Southern mind change drastically after the War?

Not in most cases. But where that was true, it certainly gives the lie to the myth that all slaves lived a tortured existence.

Much as I'd like to re-fight the Civil War, I think we've diverged far enough on this thread. I'll restate my original position: I have no anger toward Jefferson Davis or any of the Confederacy who fought for their cause with honor.

With that, I will bid you adieu.

334 posted on 11/20/2007 5:21:48 PM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: IronJack
Did a lot of slaves think of the plantation as an ancestral home?

Home is home, and it's a powerful thing. And as bad as Jim Crow and sharecropping was, it wasn't as bad as slavery had been.

335 posted on 11/20/2007 5:31:04 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: Xenalyte
“I’m reasonably certain there’s no one on Earth who remembers something that happened in 1889”.
There’s certainly no one alive who can remember, however there’s a little something called “Institutional Memory” whereby happenings in the past and Traditions are handed down through the Generations. Such as the memories of the War Between the States. In many ways, some of those issues are as resolvent today as then such as the proper role of the States visa vis the Federal Government.
Many of our Yankee friends seem to favor the Federal Supremacy while the Founders certainly favored State Supremacy and severely limited Federal Power by the “Chains of the Constitution”.
Unfortunately, while the Framers gave us a Republic, we were unable to keep it.
336 posted on 11/20/2007 5:38:36 PM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

...thanks for that Camp Douglas information Bubba Ho-Tep...it’s nice the funeral home has taken some effort to recognize the site....


337 posted on 11/20/2007 6:34:57 PM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: IronJack
... only this time, Massa was free to discharge them at will when their mechanized replacement became available.

Which turned out to be in the late 1930's.

And they had to spend their meager salary to buy their own food, clothing, and shelter, goods and services provided for them, albeit at marginal levels, free of charge before they were "freed."

Don't forget the added bonus that they couldn't be sold any more.

338 posted on 11/20/2007 7:10:08 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: IronJack
Bilge. The grievance was that federal military installations on sovereign state soil were being used to enforce an agenda that was not palatable to the locals, in defiance of constitutional protections.

Completely and utterly false.

First, those federal military installations were on federal land.

Second, they wern't "enforcing" any "agenda."

Third, the first seven treasonous states declared secession during the Buchanan administration - an administration which had bent over backwards to osculate their slaveholding derrieres.

Since the federal government had declared itself a hostile entity -- an invading force if you will -- the states felt they had the right to contain federal troops or force them to withdraw.

The hostile stance of the federal government was the new administration's response to the treasonous decision they had already taken to secede.

And that hostile stance was taken only after attempts at rational discussion failed.

Read the Acts of Secession of the various states yourself. They make it pretty clear that it was the repeated violations of state sovereignty that motivated them.

Not really. Of the 13 secession ordinances, only 5 make mention of any motivation at all. Of those 5, 3 were made after the Confederacy had already initiated military hostilities with the Union and the Union's own self-defense is cited as the reason for secession - there is no enumeration of any specific violations.

Of the remaining 2, AL cites the election of Lincoln as the reason for secession and makes passing reference to "infractions" by the the Union that it does not bother to list or explain and the TX ordinance is the only one that makes any specific complaint at all (other than crying like a baby because their favorite candidate didn't win the Presidency).

Texas' complaint: that the Feds didn't do enough to protect the western border of TX from Indian raids.

Pretty weak tea, all of it.

339 posted on 11/21/2007 4:33:42 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: IronJack
I can point out hundreds of thousands of poor northern serfs who sold themselves into virtual slavery in the North.

As I expected, you come up empty. Keep comparing "virtual" slavery with actual slavery, the kind where you and your children get sold to the highest bidder. You sound a lot like Michael Moore comparing the healthcare systems of the U.S. and Cuba. Sure, everyone in Cuba gets free healthcare, and as long as they stay on Massa Fidel's plantation things are fine. But go ahead and try to leave the country and you get thrown in prison. It's sad how so many non-slaves on this thread have to stoop to touting the benefits of slavery--for the slaves themselves--in order to defend the Confederacy.
340 posted on 11/21/2007 7:45:31 AM PST by drjimmy
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