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To: Hostage

One part that all of the fairtax haters seem to miss is the

“secure in our persons and papers”

by not having to, under penalty of perjury, disclose the private information of our income and charity giving.


106 posted on 05/11/2007 1:39:41 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

You’re absolutely right.

The reason the ‘Income’ tax was always attempted in American history is because certain extremely wealthy Americans were seen to escape taxation by living in states with small population. Taxes had to be apportioned or they had to be indirect like an excise tax or sales tax. The FairTax is an excise tax in the spirit of the Constitution.

The first successful attempt to impose an ‘Income’ tax in the USA was in the nineteenth century and it was challenged in court and ruled unconstitutional. In 1913, JP Morgan and other extremely wealthy individuals cut a deal that they would back an amendment to tax their wealth in return for a central bank concession, the Federal Reserve Act. In return for their paying income taxes they were allowed to create money out of thin air, limited only as a reserve percentage of gold stocks. With a reserve set at say 20% then if there were two billion dollars of gold the central bankers were allowed to create and circulate 10 billion dollars of currency; hence extra phantom wealth was created by them acting as central bankers and they controlled it. The Founders fought against allowing central bankers but in 1913 Congress was bribed to allow the Federal Reserve.

In 1913 the 16th Amendment somehow got ratified by dubious means and called for taxes on income from whatever source and without apportionment. The Supreme Court ruled shortly thereafter that the 16th Amendment conferred no new means of taxation. That meant if an income tax was imposed it had to be an indirect tax meaning the same percentage in each state, like a corporate income tax of say 10%. The problem was then as it is today that an excise tax such as a sales tax is just passed along. So the wealthy were not impacted by excise taxes. They could be impacted by an income tax but apportionment meant they could claim residence in a sparsely populated state and pay little tax if any.

The tax code got revised 5 times in fifty years and each time the references to Publlic Law were muddled and lost.

When the personal income tax started it was a very small percentage and it was required of only the wealthy, less than 1% of the population. It really was put into effect to calm the People that the very rich were paying their fair share.

Now it is the middle class that carries the burden.

And the biggest problem is the never ending definition of ‘income’. Income is whatever the IRS says it is.

But think for a moment about technology. It was impossible in 1913 for the government to track income but they knew who the wealthy were, and what rents they collected on the land they owned. So it was a manageable problem.

Today it is a nightmare.

But today we have technology that will allow about 3000 retailers to collect and forward a national retail sales tax (NRST) to the Treasury. That is part of the FairTax and it will bring freedom back to America by allowing the elimination of the ‘income’ tax. Technology allows it today whereas it was not possible one hundred years ago.


117 posted on 05/11/2007 3:04:31 PM PDT by Hostage (Fred Thompson will be President.)
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To: MrB
Exactly. THE IRS is our nation's KGB. Eliminating it would restore the original promise of freedom envisaged by our country's Founders. The income tax is imimical to true freedom because its coercive, invades personal privacy and is redistributive, three good reasons all conservatives should want to see the income tax gone forever.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

161 posted on 05/12/2007 4:01:12 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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