Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement

(From a thread) | Credit to Spiff for the chart and flashbunny for the grapics

[Jim Robinson]

Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement (and a knife in the back).

The only difference in a Liberal Rudy Giuliani and Liberal Hillary Clinton is the fact of which bathrooms they select to use and there are some who are willing to even question that.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	SupportsOpposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

[right way right]

He’s not going to be the nominee.

[Luke21]

Does it appear to you like people are taking their ball and going home? This is more like suiting up and getting into the field. We don’t want Giuliani, no matter in what form of syrup or soup he is served to us.

[.30Carbine]

I’ll take Zell over Rudy any day of the week, Sundays included.

Ditto.

[The_Eaglet]

bump

[Smokin' Joe]

Nice platform summary, and one I agree with completely.

Voting for the lesser of two evils only goes so far.

Yep. And either way, it encourages evil.

[Smokin' Joe]

but because he is one of us

Us who?

[Smokin' Joe]

In Thompson's defense, it appears those workers were to be documented, and thus not illegal.

Just trying to be fair.

And for the record, I am behind Duncan Hunter.

[Smokin' Joe]

As for the squeegee men, a lot of them were threatening and a few carried out threats. Intimidating motorists while they’re stuck in traffic at stop lights, by approaching and touching their cars without permission or invitation, is not something that should be tolerated. It’s not something that’s safe for city drivers to get accustomed to.

Pity the drivers there aren't allowed to carry the means of more directly causing such folk to reassess their modus operandi...here, looking down the barrel of a .45 might cause them to rethink their profession.

No need to look to the government for salvation.

Therein, though, lies the crux of the matter. Many city folks wouldn't tolerate such independance, and we refuse to live without it.

[Pete wolfhound1969]

I have lurked here at FR for many years and have posted only one time. That time was to get permission to use a quote that I really liked. I would like to post here and share my opinions but I take boo coo oxycontin for pain and concentration is barely at a minimum. It took me almost forty-five minutes to type this one. I am not able to debate anyone who has something to say to me. I am not a hit and run coward.

Well, here goes….

I am a disabled Vietnam Vet who is sick and tired of the slow road to H—L. I have tried very hard to believe in the Republican Party but all I see are crumbs from the table for Conservatives and a major butt kissing for the slime-liberal-baby-killers.

I am really sick of hearing people tell me they are willing to give a pass on his abortion stance because they think he will be great on the WOT. Anyone who is more afraid for his own safety over the life of an unborn child is a coward.

Also, anyone who thinks the cross-dresser did such a wonderful job of cleaning up crime in New York should just go ahead and admit that they believe gun control to be a necessity for the good of all mankind. If it worked in New York it will world all over America, Right!

I will not bow nor will I bend my knee for anyone who does not cherish our precious Constitution.

Please forgive all errors.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Much as I agree with the principle of armed self-defense, the reality is that these squeegee men were operating in heavy traffic, at stop lights. Firing a gun at a squeegee man in that setting would be extremely likely to end up hitting an innocent occupant of another car, or a pedestrian.

[Jim Robinson]

Thank you very much for the beautiful heartfelt post.

And thank you for you service.

Welcome home, Bro!

[No Blue States]

Anyone who is more afraid for his own safety over the life of an unborn child is a coward.

I very much agree.

[Mrs.Liberty]

Sir,

First, Welcome Home, and Thank You for Your Service.

Second, may I use something you posted in your most recent post as my tag line?

“Anyone who is more afraid for his own safety over the life of an unborn child is a coward”.

You are spot on. I appreciate your post. God Bless!

[Pete wolfhound1969]

Thanks for the welcome home my brother and the same to you.

Thank you Sir for your courageous stand against a man who is lying through his teeth about his being a Conservative. It would be very easy to go with the flow and not make waves. I have read your articles through the years and I admire your ability to tell it like it is.

You are a Vet and I stand with you as a brother, baptized in blood and ready to defend our Constitution. I will also stand with you as a brother in Christ and pray for you and all who participate on this wonderful forum.

God Bless my Brother.

[Pete wolfhound1969]

Thank you Mrs.Liberty for your kind words and yes, feel free to use the quote.

God Bless and keep you well.

[Mrs.Liberty]

Thank You!!

[trussell]

bum{p}ing

[absalom01]

That's the California Republican Assembly, homes!

The only thing surprising to me about this was that Guiliani got ANY votes at all from the CRA.

An anecdote:
Last month, a friend who has been a good grass-roots Republican activist in LA county e-mailed explaining that he had accepted a position with the Guiliani campaign as a "volunteer coordinator".  He's an ambitious guy, and clearly figured that Rudy was a shoo-in for the nomination, and that this was a good way to get in on the ground floor.  Anyway, he was asking if I would let him come to my club, and my CRA unit to try to recruit some early volunteers.  My reaction was a cool "I don't think that's a very good idea right now..."  When I mentioned this to the two club boards, the reaction was along the lines of "It's not a good idea, ever.  I the party nominates that guy, I'm not only going to stay away from the GOTV effort for the first time since Goldwater, I'm going to vote for a third party."  Ooh, kay....since these are not only the people who vote, but are the ones who go out and get the other 'hard core' republicans to vote, I'm thinking Rudy's chances are looking a little, ah, less inevitable than in February.

My totaly unscientific opinion: Rudy is utterly unelectable in the GOP primaries, for a host of reasons.  The "rationalists" in the party have been trying to sell the line that he's the only electable candidate in the general, and are trying to "push with a rope" to get the GOP base who vote in primaries to hold their noses and pull the lever for Rudy for the greater good.  Nobody I know is buying that, so I think that the establishment is just kidding itself.  One thing I thought was kind of funny:  the same demented line of reasoning we would see from some of the recently departed RudyBots was almost word-for-word the same nonsense I was getting from the paid folks when they were trying to get a small CRA unit (of all people) to help with phone banking for Rudy.  It didn't work in the real world any more that it did in cyberspace.

[Smokin' Joe]

You apparently don't understand the basics of "an armed society makes for a polite society", so let me elucidate.

Seldom in acts of self defense involving firearms is the weapon actually discharged. The mere presence of a firearm held, brandished in response to a threat, or displayed will often be enough, and to do so without valid reason will get you in trouble, too.

There are strict 'rules of engagement', involving the legitimate use or threat of deadly force.

The idea that people at random may be armed will be capitalized upon by those who do not carry, but will buy bumper stickers, etc., to make it appear they are likely to.

That serves as a deterrent to all but the most determined or stupid, and I reiterate, seldom, even then, is it necessary for a shot to be fired.

There is no justification for discharging the firearm (shooting or shooting at someone) without the presence of an immediate threat of serious bodily injury or death (especially in a crowded area where there is potential to harm innocent bystanders).

Displaying a weapon when threatened with serious bodily injury or death, (or acting to prevent serious bodily injury or death of a third party who cannot defend themselves nor retreat), usually deters the would-be criminal from any further pursuit of their goal, and often suffices to take them into custody.

Otherwise, there would be a lot more wounded defendants/suspects in court--or dead ones not.

Virtually every State which has concealed carry widely available has very stringent rules, codified, governing the acceptable use of deadly force in self-defense or the defense of others, and the person with the permit can be held criminally and civilly responsible for everything from displaying their weapon to wounding or killing someone who did not justifiably deserve to be shot on the basis of the incident.

All rights to self defense using lethal force are forfeit if the person 'defending themselves' actually instigated the incident.

The permit is a responsibility, not some sort of 'James Bond license to kill'.

Killing another person, no matter how justified, is serious sh!T, and will change your life--at the very least how you are percieved by yourself and others in your peer group--and is never to be taken lightly.

So kindly do away with any visions of Hollywood Western shoot-outs. That stuff was rare, even in the 'Wild West'.

Firing a gun at a squeegee man in that setting would be extremely likely to end up hitting an innocent occupant of another car, or a pedestrian.

In extremis, angle the shot downward from the car window, which they would be likely standing beside to deliver any credible threat to your person. (Anything less is a property crime, and not legitimate cause for deadly force).

The wound track would be a nasty one, generally aimed from the navel through the pelvis.

Again, at this point, someone would have to be legitimately in fear of their life or serious injury requiring hospitalization, or the shooting would not be justified.

Through and through penetration would be likely to put the bullet into the pavement, with the shot travelling through the lower abdomen and passing within the pelvic girdle or lodging there. Nasty, quite possibly fatal wound.

From an SUV, pickup, or van, the shot angle is easier to get because the window is higher off the pavement.

If you have a carry permit and have not tried to stay ahead of what can happen by playing "What if?", you are only practicing with half of your weaponry at best. The mind is the best weapon you have. It will help you avoid problems, avoid escalation into lethal force situations, and while not foolproof, can go a long way to keep you safe. It cannot do it all though, and having the skill and means to deal with the exceptions can mean the difference between life and death.

[GovernmentShrinker]

I carry regularly when I’m in Pennsylvania (weekends). I know full well that it’s a lot more reasonable to eliminate the phenomenon of “squeegee men” (many of whom were crack addicts, and many of whom were operating in threatening groups that surrounded cars) by outlawing the practice and arresting them, than to “manage” the problem by expecting motorists to intimidate them into staying away with the threat of a gun.

Motorists have a right to drive on public streets and stop at stop lights and sit in traffic jams at tunnel and bridge approaches, without being surrounded by a gang of threatening extortionists, and having to do mental calculations about how likely they are to actually do the motorist and his passengers physical harm. And physical harm was rare, but expensive damage to cars in retaliation for non-payment of the extortion fee was common. I don’t think any state’s laws permit shooting someone on the grounds that “he was about to ‘key’ my car”, and the gangbangers who engaged in this practice certainly knew full well that this was not an option for their motorist victims. Other common tactics of the “squeegee men” were to break windshield wipers (which motorists often turned on in an effort to drive them away), smear the windshield of a non-payer with something that obstructed vision, creating an accident hazard, and lying across the hoods of cars (or sliding, to make sure a belt buckle would do maximum damage to the paint), daring the driver to proceed and risk having to go to court when the “squeegee man” and his co-conspirator “witnesses” claimed the motorist hit an innocent pedestrian who was just trying to cross the street.

The key to Giuliani’s VERY successful effort to reduce serious crime, was to stop ignoring the ubiquitous “petty” crime that had been allowed to become a constant, unchallenged backdrop to NYC life.