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To: ChicagoHebrew

"Incidentally, it is for this reason that the Christian belief that Jesus was a "Passover lamb who saves from sin" displays an incredible ignorance of the Torah and Judaism. The Passover ceremonial BBQ had nothing to do with "saving" from sin. It was a ceremony done for and in remembrance of the Exodus from Egypt, when the Jews slaughtered lambs to mark their homes, allowing the Angel of Death to passover them."

I am afraid you yourself show an "incredible ignorance" of basic Christianity--not to mention a complete lack of tactfulness about the most sacred and centrally important fact of others' religious belief.

Passover is understood by Christians, as it appears to be throughout the Tanak, as having as fundamental the SALVATION of the people of Israel from Egypt. The fact that they were kept safe from the Angel of Death, and, were finally released from 400+ years of slavery the very next day, is understood as a real historic event, which prophetically looked forward to the eventual spiritual release from death and slavery by made possible by the Messiah, Jesus.

Christianity has never taught that Passover itself was a sin (spiritual) sacrifice, merely that the great defining event of the physical God the King saving of Israel from both death and slavery which itself looked forward to the greater event of the heir of King David saving His people, by voluntarily sacrificing Himself in their place.

Even the 10 Commandments, have at the beginning the rationale of "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" i.e. that saving them came first, and their obedience to the Law was only a rational response, in light of what God had already done for them. That "salvation" from Egypt though, was fully an act of grace...Israel's law-keeping was not the reason God freed them (as they didn't even have the Law before then).

I've read through the entire Torah (have you read the New Testament?), and it very much appears to me that blood sacrifice--starting from the skins given to Adam and Eve, through Abel's good sacrifice, to the various sacrifices of Abraham, into the Law of Moses, on to King David's (intentional) sin with Bathsheba and his sorrow and repentence over that, into the time of the Exile--were an absolute central part of Jewish religion--and these were very solemn affairs, not merely big barbecues as you describe. In practice too, sacrifices were offered for all kinds of sin, not merely the unintentional.

2nd Temple Judaism and before had blood sacrifice as a very CENTRAL rite, (offering (many)lambs every single day) as does in principle Christianity, by reliance on the blood of Jesus on the cross. You are right though, since the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, Judaism has not had blood sacrifice as a central part, as that was seen as impossible without the Temple.

Since for nearly 2000 years now sacrifices have not been a part of Judaism, it doesn't seem unreasonable that Jewish theology and the understanding of the Torah would also reflect (in a big way) that change in practice and have a complete de-emphasis on the central importance of blood sacrifice. The bible doesn't lie though, and we Christians can read and understand it at least as well as modern Jews. Biblical Judaism definitely had blood sacrifice as its central religious act--following closely with obedience to the Torah Law.


38 posted on 03/01/2007 9:58:53 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns; ChicagoHebrew

ChicagoHebrew is correct (not that he needs someone like me to confirm that). Jewish people (and non-Jewish followers like myself) pray for forgiveness for sins--especially for intentional sins.

The ancient canard stating that Jews must obey every law perfectly or burn in hell is just that: a very old lie. And the Roman version of "hell" is not even from Judaism.


48 posted on 03/01/2007 10:57:30 PM PST by familyop
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