[Leatherneck_MT]

Wrong again Einstein. My Right to self defense, and thus to possessing arms to see to that self defense, comes from God, not from any government entity.

Go back and read the amendment again. It says that the Right shall not be infringed. That means the right existed BEFORE the Amendment was written, not after.

[tpaine]

More confused reasoning from the 'majoritarian State' faction;
'-- Each State is empowered to decree how they will 'protect' your alienable right to keep and bear arms. --'


Presser v. Illinois
Address:http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Mags/Presser-versus-Illinois.htm


Presser v. Illinois

by Dave Kopel

If you read the literature from the anti-gun lobbies, you will be informed that the United States Supreme Court has "repeatedly" ruled that the Second Amendment is not an individual right.


The issue in Presser had nothing to do with whether the Second Amendment protected an individual right, but rather with the constitutionality of a particular gun control; a ban on parading a privately-formed, armed group down public streets.

The late 19th century was a period in which state governments resorted to increasingly violent means to suppress organized labor.
Unsurprisingly, many labor groups formed self-defense organizations. National Guard units and other state para-miltary forces (and occasionally the U.S. Army) were used to suppress strikes. Most workers' organizations were not interested in overthrowing the government, but only in protecting their right to choose to bargain collectively for decent working conditions and fair wages.

One prong of the governmental effort to suppress organized labor was a ban on armed parades in public; Illinois was one of the states that enacted such a ban, making it a crime for "bodies of men to associate together as military organizations, or to drill or parade with arms in cities and towns unless authorized by law..." ----

---- nothing in Presser says that the Second Amendment is not an individual right. In fact, one part of the Presser opinion erects a new limitation on gun prohibition. ---


--- the Court noted that even if there were no Second Amendment, the states could not disarm their citizens, because such disarmaments would deprive Congress of its Article I power to regulate militia training and to call forth the militia ---
--- the Court states that the States may not "prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms."

Further, the militia is not a select, uniformed force, instead, the militia consists of "all citizens capable of bearing arms."

Thus, when the anti-gun lobbies claim that Presser not only supports gun control (which it does) but also says that there is no Constitutional barrier to gun prohibition, the lobbyists are wildly off-base.

[robertpaulsen]

"My Right to self defense, and thus to possessing arms to see to that self defense, comes from God, not from any government entity."

Your right to self defense does indeed come from God and that right extends to every single human being. Your right to self defense is an inalienable right.

Your right to self defense with a S&W .38, however, is a natural right (if it was an inalienable right that came from God, every person would have it -- children, the insane, prisoners, felons, illegal aliens, etc. God makes no distinction). If you're living above the tree line and wish to carry one around with you, that is your natural right.

If you wish to become part of society, however, this natural right may be reasonably regulated by society. It all depends on the constitution of the state in which you live.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have rights. Guess what? So do the others you live around. Let's not forget them, huh?

[tpaine]

Leatherneck_MT: "My Right to self defense, and thus to possessing arms to see to that self defense, comes from God, not from any government entity."

Your right to self defense does indeed come from God, -- but my God's view of rights [the majority view] is grander than your Gods minority view.
Your minority right to self defense with a S&W .38, however, is only a natural right, -- not an inalienable right that came from the true God, the majorities God..
Every person cannot have it -- children, the insane, prisoners, felons, illegal aliens, etc. -- Your God makes no distinction. -- Our bigger God does and by the majority rule principle, - we get to say who can own & carry arms.

If you're living above the tree line and wish to carry one around with you, that is your natural 'small god' given right.

If you wish to become part of society, however, this natural right may be reasonably regulated by our 'Big God' society.

It all depends on the constitutional majority of the state in which you live..

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have rights. Guess what? So do the others you live around. And let's not forget who has the bigger God, huh? We socialists do..