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To: cdga5for4
I don't believe he has gotten people more interested in their faith at all.

He's got people interested in searching for clues and building superstitious endtime castles in the air.

As far as I'm concerned, one mark of a serious Christian is that he doesn't have an elaborate endtime scenario all worked out in excruciating detail in his head. People who walk around with lists of thousands of arcane "clues" about why the world is about to end don't seem to have much time for the actual work of Christian living.

29 posted on 08/02/2006 7:01:42 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

I disagree. Many people reading these books have never been exposed to the gospel at all. I'm sure these books have caused many to more closely examine and study the Bible, and that many have been led to a closer personal relationship with Christ. Not everyone who reads these books agrees with the eschatology presented.


35 posted on 08/02/2006 7:23:38 AM PDT by cdga5for4
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To: wideawake
"As far as I'm concerned, one mark of a serious Christian is that he doesn't have an elaborate endtime scenario all worked out in excruciating detail in his head. People who walk around with lists of thousands of arcane "clues" about why the world is about to end don't seem to have much time for the actual work of Christian living."

Legalism!
The Church's internal cancer.

Christian faith is determined by a person's relationship to Christ...not by what the person does...That's why the term "Christian" is applied to that person...their relationship to Christ.

Christ, when asked what would be signs of the last days, did not admonish or criticize his disciples for looking/thinking about such events. Jesus's first words in His reply were; "Watch out that no one deceives you..."...He did not say: "You guys...the REAL hallmark of one of my disciples is that they don't ask such elaborate end time scenario questions or look for "arcane" clues". No His first words were a warning of upcoming deceptions...as though they/we were to be aware of the coming times...and to "watch" for them. So, for you to say "REAL Christians" are the ones who do the work of the "Christian living" whist (implied)walking around blind to the current events around them is to lay a rather legalistic trip upon others.

Additionally, I find your use of the phrase "arcane clues" to be rather telling. The "clues" that Christians get their ideas from are the words of Christ and the inspired Word of God. For you to describe the words of Christ and the Bible as merely "arcane clues" reveals your lack of belief in Biblical inerrancy...and tends to indicate a liberal/allegorical interpreter of Scripture.

If, however, you actually believe the words of Christ, we are to "watch"...we are to be prepared...and yes, we are to be about the Lord's work...those in Judea are to be ready to "flee" when the time is right, and the only way they will know when the time is right to flee is because they are watching.

55 posted on 08/02/2006 8:08:37 AM PDT by woollyone (Preacher; "If there was more love in the world, there'd probably be a lot less dyin'")
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To: wideawake; cdga5for4

"I don't believe he has gotten people more interested in their faith at all."

That's OK if you don't think so, but don't condemn me for thinking differently. Some on this thread are assuming that Mr. LeHaye is greedy, and only in it for the money. I sense a little covetousness and resentment there...

In any event, I agree with you (really with Jesus) about no one knowing when, and I also agree that we shouldn't be obsessed with the end. BUT - Jesus himself emphasized that even if we don't know when, we need to be watching - not just ready, but WATCHING. So anything less than obsession and date-setting I can't see as being bad. LeHaye has NOT set a date, that I know of.

[Jesus speaking in Mark chapter 13]
32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


191 posted on 08/02/2006 11:57:54 AM PDT by HeadOn (Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.)
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