Famous British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking says pope told him not to study beginning of universe

Northwest Florida Daily News ^ | 15 JUNE 2006 | Min Lee

[Larry Lucido]

Of course Hawking ignored the request of the Pope.He's an atheist.

I don't believe JPII even said that, so I'll just ignore the entire assertion.

That said, you don't gotta be an atheist to ignore innappropriate requests of any religious leader.

[GOP Poet]

I forgot to include my second thought about what John Paul II may have been doing if he said such a thing. Maybe he sensed something in what Hawking was playing with in his presentation, that he was indirectly chastising one's belief in God or the existence of God. I think we all have experienced this. We see someone is acting as if they are being all intellectual or scientific, but they are really taking digs at one's belief in God, and manipulating their seeming facts, that aren't fact or scientific conclusions at all. I don't know. Maybe John Paul II saw this subtly in the presentation and felt Hawking needed a bit of 'loving' correction.

It would be interesting to have a video tape of the whole of this experience--the presentation given by Hawking that day and John Paul II true comments.

[evets]

The Pope told me that 'break dancing' wasn't cool...

He said that 'hip hop' was the new style... and he was right.

[muir_redwoods]

"But in 1992, Pope John Paul II issued a declaration saying that the church's denunciation of Galileo was an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension."

Mutual? I'm fairly confident Galileo understood the church.

[clyde asbury]

Pope ping

[spinestein]

[An agnostic is a gutless atheist.]



A typical statement made by persons completely ignorant of the real distinctions. It is the equivalent of someone saying that a Christian is just a more cowardly version of a Muslim.

[spinestein]

[Now, centuries later, it had decided to invite a number of experts to advise it on cosmology. At the end of the conference the participants were granted an audience with the Pope. He told us that it was all right to study the evolution of the universe after the big bang, but we should not inquire into the big bang itself because that was the moment of Creation and therefore the work of God.]


This is the "quote" that everyone is getting worked up about?

It seems plausible to me that this occurred exactly as stated and it's no big deal. The Pope is offering his religious philosophy to scientists that there is a profound separation in things which are in the domain of man and things which belong to God. This is also the philosophy of many scientists as well.

It's obvious from reading the rest of the quote that he's making a joke about being subjected to an "inquisition" for going against the wishes of the Pope. The idea that Hawking is attempting to bash Catholics or the Pope is silly.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

It's obvious from reading the rest of the quote that he's making a joke about being subjected to an "inquisition" for going against the wishes of the Pope. The idea that Hawking is attempting to bash Catholics or the Pope is silly.

Oh, I agree. The original comment that Hawking claims the Pope made about probing into the instant of the big bang sounds plausible enough, but doubtless John Paul was simply stating his own personal view, not trying to stifle scientific inquiry. Hawking simply seemed to be making some light-hearted comments about the incident.

[GOP Poet]

Either way they are all vulnerable at some point to conversion, so in the end either one is or is not in heaven. Pretty much summarizes it for me. Jesus said he is the truth, the light, the way and that no man shall enter into heaven except through me. I know we talk of God, but if one believes in Jesus and lives accordingly even if it is decided in Jesus' favor in that person's last breath (if one happened to live as an atheist or agnostic) they will be taken in by Him.

I once read a quote from a woman that watched over the death of a famous author in the 19th century, who was an atheist. She said she would never again nurse a dying atheist, the anticipation of their oncoming death is wrought with severe agony and pain. But this is not true of any believing Christian. No, it is just the opposite.

[Old Professer]

Hawking, himself no longer knows what he's hawking.

[Tax-chick]

Makes Hawking sound rather like a creep, to me.

[stanz]

Of course Hawking ignored the request of the Pope. He's an scientist.

Thank you for being the first to make a sensible statement.

[Hacksaw]

No wonder the Catholic church is dying.

Except for that part about one of the few religions growing in the US.

[Torie]

I suspect the percentage of Americans who are Catholic, counted the way Protestants are counted, ie actual adherents, rather than counting all those who are born Catholic, many of whom have decamped for whatever reason, is declining as a percentage, probably from around 25% to 20% (maybe less) since 1960 (if one uses the Catholic numbers, it is flat). Catholicism is a mainstream Christian religion, ala Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians, and all of those sects have atrophied. The only reason the Catholic decline has not been as sharp as the Protestant mainstrean religions, is the Hispanic immigration (and about 40% of those leave over time to Protestant religions, particularly fundamentalist ones, and those converts are the base of GOP strength among Hispanics). The religions in the US that are growing, are varying hues of fundamentalism and Mormonism, which of course is part of the reason that the debate about social issues has become more caustic. The secular versus sacred divide has less in common than previously.

That in any event, is how this near Atheist sees it.

[donh]

This quote by Hawking certainly leaves the door open to all three options: agnostic, deist, atheist

...or indifferent.

[donh]

Here's a quote from a rather well-known ADDRESS TO THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES in 2000, by JPII

the ethical and moral responsibilities connected to scientific research can be perceived as a requirement within science, because it is a fully human activity, but not as control, or worse, as an imposition which comes from outside. The man of science knows perfectly, from the point of view of his knowledge, that truth cannot be subject to negotiation, cannot be obscured or abandoned to free conventions or agreements between groups of power, societies, or States. Therefore, because of the ideal of service to truth, he feels a special responsibility in relation to the advancement of mankind, not understood in generic or ideal terms, but as the advancement of the whole man and of everything that is authentically human.

4. Science conceived in this way can encounter the Church without difficulty and engage in a fruitful dialogue with her, because it is precisely man who is "the primary and fundamental way for the Church" (Redemptor hominis, n. 14). Science can then look with interest to biblical Revelation which unveils the ultimate meaning of the dignity of man, who is created in the image of God.

Since Revelation includes Genesis, this seems like an open invitation to me. In defense of the Hawkings anecdote, however, I'd like to point out that JPII's official acceptance of cosmological physics and evolutionary biology was a gradual thing, and I am quite prepared to believe that he had not shaken off old Papal attitudes about these sciences entirely (or probably ever) when the incident Hawkings refers to occured, and it seems more likely than not to me that the Pope might have advised Hawkings, in informal conversation, not to mess with Genesis.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[x]

Catholicism is a mainstream Christian religion, ala Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians,

That's an interesting point. Fifty years ago, when Catholics had their own neighborhoods and schools and many were still first generation Americans, nothing could have been less true, but today, there's a lot in what you say. Of course, the international and hierarchical structure of the Church is different from that of the Congregationalists or Methodists, so there are limits as to how "American" and liberal the Catholic Church will become.

Eastern Orthodoxy might be an interesting case -- have those churches become mainstream? Maybe Catholicism will remain at a midpoint between churches like the Russian, Greek or Syrian Orthodox on the one hand and the American mainstream denominations.

It sometimes looks as though the hope of the hierarchy is that immigration will bring back the old days of not so long ago, but as you note, many Hispanics are moving to evangelical Protestantism. With today's mass communications, you don't get the kind of closed communities you once did.

[SunkenCiv]

additional:

• Stephen Hawking Takes on Isaac Newton; Christians Respond
• Stephen Hawking's latest book fails to disprove God
• The Grand Design:
  Hawking on Gravity and Creation, and William Lane Craig on More.
• Is Intelligence By Association Possible?
• Stephen Hawking vs. God
• Professor Stephen Hawking says no God created Universe
• God did not create the universe, says Hawking
• Stephen Hawking Picks Physics Over God for Big Bang
• Stephen Hawking: God was not needed to create the Universe

archival:

• Stephen Hawking just doesn't get it
  (asserting the superiority of science over religion)
• The Big Bang and the Big Question: A Universe without God?
• Hawking: God may play dice after all