Europe: "Oh, three or four...."
Posted on 05/14/2006 8:07:09 PM PDT by familyop
European Union foreign ministers are tomorrow expected to restate the bloc’s willingness to help Iran develop a civilian nuclear power program if the Islamic republic agrees to international controls to ensure it will not build atomic weapons.
A meeting document posted on Friday on the EU’s Website said the ministers were likely to express the Union’s, ”preparedness to support Iran’s development of a safe, sustainable and proliferation-proof civilian nuclear program, if international concerns were fully addressed.”
The EU and the US fear Iran’s nuclear research program is a cover for the development of nuclear weapons. Tehran says the program is peaceful and its only aim is to generate nuclear power.
The Europeans are seeking to build on a package of economic and political incentives offered to Iran in August last year in return for a permanent end to uranium enrichment activities.
Iran rejected that deal, but EU governments have continued to offer sweeteners to try to persuade Iran to bring its nuclear program into line with international demands, as well as pushing at the United Nations for measures that could lead to sanctions if Iran refuses.
The head of the UN nuclear watchdog welcomed the EU moves.
“European Union is preparing a package of proposals to present Iran which is a positive thing because as I have always said a solution, a comprehensive solution, to the Iranian issue needs to address all the issues of security, economics trade, etc.,” Mohammed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said yesterday.
Germany, France and Britain – who are leading the European efforts – are working to outline possible advantages Iran might be offered if it complied with international demands. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday that the EU was seeking to pave the way for the resumption of negotiations with the Iranians.
Meanwhile, Iran’s president has won support from fellow Muslim leaders for his contested uranium enrichment program, as he told the world there was no reason to be nervous about his nuclear ambitions.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in Indonesia that he has co-operated fully with the UN nuclear agency and was willing to hold talks about the deepening international stand-off with anyone except long-time foe Israel and countries who hold “bombs over our heads.”
The hard-line leader made the comments yesterday after meeting heads of state and prime ministers from Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Turkey and Malaysia and government ministers from Egypt and Bangladesh.
Though they were on the resort island of Bali to discuss ways to boost economic and political cooperation, alleviate poverty and restructure debt it was impossible to ignore Iran’s intensifying nuclear stalemate with the West.
Fears that Iran is trying to build nuclear warheads were aggravated on Friday, when diplomats said UN inspectors may have found traces of highly enriched uranium on equipment from an Iranian research centre linked to the military.
Europe: "Oh, three or four...."
This has nothing to do with appeasement. The question is which countries are the most eminent enemies to Iran. Nobody is shouting "Death to Germany" or "Death to France" or "Death to Britain" there. Most Iranians feel close to those countries since there are close economical and cultural ties. I.e. Khomeini lived in Paris before the Revolution or the last President Kathami was several years in Hamburg/Germany. Western Europe is the window to the free world for the Iranian theocracy. Personally I am much more afraid of the Pakistani nukes concerning Europe in case of a change in power there.
Therefore it is obvious that a Iranian nuclear strike would be aimed to Israel or -if they really want to meet Allah soon- the US. If we would be ignorant (what we Europeans are not) we could say that this is simply none of our business. We try to be helpful with our (limited) means. Just take a look at my #40.
Take a look at my #42.
So just hope that the alligator eats you last? Nice that Germany has helped Israel. But this Iranian situation (and maybe the Pakis) cannot be "talked" to a resolution, do you think? Seems to me the talking is over....
We have to be careful not to endanger our own position without loosing the grip to this problem. There will be no easy solution. Therefore it is not wrong to gain time through negotiations.
ummm correct me if i am wrong but didn't that happen ?
Or was the USA as it is today build by the apache and sioux ?
If all it took was air strikes, I am pretty sure America would of acted by now.
But they haven't, America is trying to build a common consensus and the EU is aiding her.
Instead of always attacking Europe I think you should look closer to home to what America is really saying and then to what China and Russia are saying.
Minor detail for the 'your ignoring the risk' fraction:
Since the vacuum pumps that contained the highly enriched uranium are believed to be imported from pakistan - the explanation is probably that they where used in the pakistani research program for their nukes.
No - i don't think that makes Apeboy a nice man.
Iran needs to be controled not bombed (yet) - they still stand a good chance to join civilization prior to paradise. I just know many people there don't want anything but ending the mullahs evernagging twisted morality. In many heads the regime of the mullahs is already gone.
Making ape boy a matyre without need would be a tragic and expensive mistake and it would jeopadize a lot (people, money etc).
What the EU is really saying is they would rather risk nuclear war against somebody else than risk even a hint of bad press themselves.
The common ground between them is all involved would rather the US doesn't maintain order in the world.
They will get their wish. And there won't be order in the world.
They will wait for Iran to start it with them.
They withdrew from Lebanon, and got attacked. They evicted people from Gaza because the US asked, and got Hamas. Israel won't even cut off the Hamas-led PA, because they think they might get bad press in Europe if they do. Their credibility is not exactly sky-high at the moment.
They don't have to 'overthrow' him. They can elect somebody else. The mullahs are on their way out.
Unless we bomb them back in.
observations - not hope. And overthrowing isn't necessary (kick into the lower abdomen would be cool) lust wait until the next election comes. Mr. Ahmedinedjads only inner political chance is the successful provocation of Israel.
A radio station btw sometimes is a much sharper sword then a B-2 rearrangeing stones in a dessert - or taking out one of many facilities. These guys all have a satellite dishes behind some plastic curtains on their balconies - watching CNN and some might even watch FOX ;-) - that is the best weapon against Ape Boy. Shoot him and they got another mad hatter ready.
This guy is NOT Hitler - because he can't invade any of his bordering countries - he's a really lame duck.
He's dangerous enough because there is a slight chance that he's stuid enough to attack Israel once he got nukes. So there is a big chance israel will strike him as soon as he's got a nuke. Infact we will notice the day his manhattan project is close to the finish line by having an Israely (led) airstrike.
But until then - we should swamp this guy otherwise.
And what makes you think that.
You think we are all idiots this side of the Atlantic.
If Iran became nuclear capable, and did decide to attack Israel, Israel would wipe Iran of the Map, and if the Iranian leadership was as mad as some on this site say.
Do you think Iran would stop at Israel, they would turn the whole of the Middle East into a nuclear conflagration, wipe out the oil which would cause the collapse of the worlds economy, Europe would collapse into anarchy as would Japan and to a certain extent America it depends if you could meet all your projected energy needs.
It has nothing to do with good press bad press, but more of safe guarding our energy supplies.
What is the current American governments view
The United States is repeating its position that the best way to resolve the stand-off with Iran over its nuclear program is through the United Nations. A top U.S. official made his comments in response to questions about whether Washington would negotiate with Tehran directly.
White House National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley says the United States has been supportive of European efforts to negotiate with Iran. He told CNN's Late Edition, Washington's position has not changed.
"The Europeans made a proposal to Iran, a year and a half ago, and we indicated clearly we were going to facilitate that proposal," said Stephen Hadley. "So, the forum has now shifted to a discussion in the U.N. Security Council, where the international community, as a whole, of which the United States is a part, can make clear to Iran what it needs to do."
So it looks as if your government is backing the EU.
And he will wait and amass an arensal of 200 odd warheads before using any. Then Hamas will get some, and so with Al-Qaeda, or whatever its contemporary version is then called. Could take 10 years, you can kick it down the road without worrying about tomorrow's headlines.
But you will get a generation long confrontation with nuclear terrorism as your reward.
Who in their right mind doesn't?
Meanwhile, Islam is running amok in Europe while your continent is underbreeding itself into extinction. Pretending these people can either be reasoned with or bought off with trade deals, tolerance and glowing intentions is a fool's game. Islamic theology comprises a totalitarian ideology no less dangerous than Communism or Nazism. Thirteen hundred years of bloody history have already proven that point.
In the end it isn't really what you want or how you placate them with carrots of Euros or hedonism. It is what the Islamics want which will determine if your lovely country has peace and prosperity or war and chaos.
You can't buy these fanatics off with a Swiss bank account like you can some crooked Nigerian dictator. Your only alternative to your eventual destruction is stopping them in their tracks while somehow changing their murderous culture. That's a very tough thing to do, but it won't be done by promising them Mercedes full of pretty mistresses and plush seats on the UN Human Rights Commission.
Two years ago the US gave the EU the lead on Iran, deferring to its preferred policies. It did so in an attempt to restore NATO unity, thinking it would be crucial longer term in dealing with this stuff. The EU took that as the victory, instead of as the task. The US basically said "fine, show me, take care of this one your way". Not because we thought it would work but because we know it doesn't, and that the EU has yet to admit that to themselves.
So, two years on, with the US doing everything the EU asked of it, the IAEA finishes its absurd series of hoop jumping exercises and refers the matter to the UN security council. Whereupon the EU notices action might be in the offing, and feels the cold draft of numbing fear. And reiterates its pleas to Iran to please please please for the love of God accept our tribute and don't hurt us. Which Iran laughs at, all the way to the oil-premium bank. They don't beg for what they can simply take.
Is the result of the experience new found unity within NATO? No it is not. The Russians support Iran as they always have. The EU is willing to talk forever and do anything everyone on earth already agrees on. But Russia doesn't agree, so that means they aren't willing to do anything. Thus they can't afford to have an actual security council vote, and have kicked it off another couple months. To beg the Iranians some more to please let them go.
The Americans set the whole thing up to force the Europeans to choose. Either you stand with the US against nuclear proliferation, or you let proliferation happen. There is no other position. Iran won't give you one, Russia won't give you one, you can't buy it because it won't stay bought and the oil producers can take more themselves, without asking.
Eventually the EU will decide to vote for trivial sanctions and the Russians will veto them. Then the EU will impose a few mild travel bans and issue a few more sternly worded leading editorials. But will refuse to ever cross Russia, take any meaningful non-military action, to side with the US, or to act themselves.
Privately they may hope the US goes it alone again and takes care of it - but political weakness here will prevent that, whether they realize it or not. Privately they may hope Israel will take care of it and take all the resulting heat. It is hardly likely, and if tried will not be remotely sufficient.
So Iran will get nuclear weapons and the world will simply watch.
In your former examples, Israel was building a case - demonstrating to the world that peace with the Arabs and Palestine was not really possible.
Also, they are now in a configuration where building a wall is possible, and progress is made as we speak.
The reason why they will be pre-emptive here is that Israel is a one-nuke country, and Iran knows it.
They will hit Tel-Aviv, then invade Jerusalem. They'll not bomb Jerusalem because of the Dome of the Rock.
It only takes one nuke to wipe out Israel in the way that the Arab world sees it.
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