Posted on 03/29/2006 1:39:17 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
For whoever is interested, we have collected a lot of info, pix, articles and transcripts on the Winkler case on a big thread here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1602406/posts
Mary Winkler appeared before the judge today and waived her right to a preliminary hearing, as well as to bond. Next Grand Jury won't be seated until June.
It is curious to me why she said what she did.
When? Today?
http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/NEWS03/60330002
Thursday, 03/30/06
Preacher's wife waives hearing, stays in jail without bond
By WOODY BAIRD
Associated Press Writer
SELMER, Tenn. (AP) -- A Tennessee preacher's wife accused of murder in the shooting death of her husband will stay in jail without bond after waiving her right to a hearing Thursday.
The case against Mary Winkler now goes to the grand jury, which will determine if there's enough evidence to support the first-degree murder charges against her.
Defense attorney Steve Farese said he would make an application for bail later, but not right now.
..." [snip]
Thanks for the link. I can't stomach Nancy Grace. It's almost as bad reading it, but I managed. lol She did a good job choosing a guest in Ruble Shelly. However, he didn't have much time to say much.
YW. Well, now that there are 3-4 months of dead space, newswise, on the case, perhaps there will be more in-depth study of the CofC by media types.
Here are some additional details from this morning on Fox News:
"... Speaking to the press outside the courthouse, her lawyers said there were a number of reasons why bond was not sought.
"Her condition is pretty fragile," defense attorney Leslie Ballin said. "We think it is in her best interest not have bond at this time."
Another member of the defense team, Steve Farese, said that while his client had been a part of every decision involved in the case, she was "having a difficulty staying on point."
I did imply that she had stopped taking the medication by the way I phrased that and don't know that that is the case. It does reflect what my friend said people were talking about in that town.
I also know, however, that agressive medication for something like bi-polar disorder (what used to be called manic depressive, right?) can make the condition worse if the patient stops taking the medication. At least that was the thinking many years ago when I drove an ambulance for a living in the NY area.
There are also cases where someone who is bi-polar starts taking sleeping pills for related problems. I know personally of a case where someone stopped taking Ambien and went into a psychotic episode within days, taking the couples young children and just disappearing for a few weeks of wandering around. She's now institutionalized and that was a case of stopping the medication triggering a reaction.
But, again, I have absolutely no direct knowledge about this case, just what my friend heard, so it's not anything to base any conclusions on. It might be enough only to get people to NOT draw premature conclusions.
I think it was Monday or Tuesday. I get to hear all kinds of garbage on Okra and the View when I am in peoples homes. It all starts to blend together.
Oh, OK, you were talking about Elizabeth. That would have been on The View. I only heard part of her rant about it, but she did imply he might have been molesting the children, without just out-and-out saying so in those words.
That was lots of people's first reaction - and I think since she's a new mom of a daughter, and she's a feisty one, at that - her first reaction was that no goody-two-shoes Sunday school teacher schoolmarm would shoot a man for anything less than that. At least, that was the gist of it yesterday and some today, as well.
And lastly, he expressed thankfulness for his daughters-in-law.
Before the family left Alabama, he said each family member visited with Mary Winkler, embraced her and reaffirmed their love for her with a willingness to forgive.
How moving. I've a knot on my throat.
The contrast between Christianity and Islam is so great... Light versus darkness, Love versus hate, Forgiveness versus retaliation.
Please add me to the church of Christ ping list.
Thanks
Maybe this will give some previous posters about the Church of Christ on another thread a different outlook on who we are.
You said, "I also know, however, that agressive medication for something like bi-polar disorder (what used to be called manic depressive, right?) can make the condition worse if the patient stops taking the medication. At least that was the thinking many years ago when I drove an ambulance for a living in the NY area.
It's not that "aggressive medication makes the condition worse." That's a common misconception. Their condition gets "worse" because they stop taking their medication in the first place.
More specifically about bipolar disorder: As a general rule medications don't make a bipolar condition "worse." The bipolar symptoms only get worse if the person stops taking their medication. In fact, medications such as lithium, SSRIs & SSRI-related antidepressants are often the only thing that allows a person with serious bipolar illness to live a relatively normal life. Find any person with bipolar disease who has been properly diagnosed and has been stabilized on psych medicine(s) to keep their disease at bay -- they'll tell you their life was a living hell before finding the right combination of medications.
I've often wondered where this "Psych meds make it worse" line of thinking comes from. I don't know, but I suspect several things:
First, it may originate from the fact that there are many, many people out there walking around with undiagnosed mental illness -- people that you and I see everyday. Naturally, since they don't even know (or care) they have a mental illness, they aren't taking medications for it. And since they're "undiagnosed," their circle of friends or acquaintances (you and I ) don't notice their abnormal behavior that much because there's not a "name" to label it with. We just think of them in terms of being "irresponsible," "crazy as hell," or for the men, "a full-blown psycho-b*tch." (I've never seen an equivalent term for males!). When they finally get a diagnosis and get stabilized with medications, unless it's someone we know well, we don't even notice.
.... [Fast forward in time a little bit. -------->] ..... A few weeks/months later, they stop taking that medicine and subsequently get sick. If it's bad enough & they get suicidal or lose touch with reality, we hear about it (usually after-the-fact). So then this person's story -- the story that gets passed around among 2nd & 3rd degree acquaintances -- gets twisted and the part about him always being "crazy as hell" gets left out. The story that does get passed along goes something like, "Yeah, he was fine until he got on those psych meds. Then he ended up in the hospital!" Based on an incomplete history, people start assuming the medications made his condition worse.
The 2nd suspicion I have involves the propensity for people with mental illness to develop a "tolerance" of sorts to their psych meds. For no apparent reason, a medication can stop being effective on certain people and they develop symptoms of mental illness again, even though they're still taking that same medication that worked last month. And as the mental illness progresses, the behavioral symptoms can worsen. (This happens with schizophrenia. A lot. Schizophrenics often become "treatment resistant.") Everyone around this person whose medicine stopped working just assumes "the psych meds did it" when in fact, the person became tolerant to that particular medication.
One other 3rd possibility: a doctor has no way of knowing what medication will work on any particular patient. Take someone with schizophrenia, for instance. That person may have to take several different antipsychotics (Risperdal, Zyprexa, Seroquel, Geodon, etc.) before finding one that controls the symptoms. Meanwhile, the patient is becoming more and more sick. Some people just assume "it's the psych meds" that making them sick. This kind of medication management can be difficult, to say the least. It usually results in a hospital stay to get the patient stabilized on another medication that's more effective in symptom management.
On another note, you said:
There are also cases where someone who is bi-polar starts taking sleeping pills for related problems. I know personally of a case where someone stopped taking Ambien and went into a psychotic episode within days, taking the couples young children and just disappearing for a few weeks of wandering around. She's now institutionalized and that was a case of stopping the medication triggering a reaction.
Abrupt discontinuation from sedative-hypnotics (Ambien/zolpidem) or anti-anxiety medications (benzodiazepines such as Xanax) is known to cause problems. That's another reason why people shouldn't just stop taking their medications without doctor supervision. In some cases the withdrawal syndrome for these types of medications can be severe, especially if the medication has been taken in high doses regularly for a long time. For one, research has shown that many people who suddenly stop taking a sedative-hypnotic may experience a grand mal seizure. In cases of severe withdrawal, a person can develop problems with reality testing (e.g., hallucinations, illusions, or delirium). That's just one more reason why people who take psychiatric medications should take them responsibly. It's often the people who don't take them responsibly that give medications the bad reputation.
I didn't mean to say so much and ramble on and on. I think it's because I just spent all day at a hospital watching some very sick people who were there because they needed some psych meds.
And of course, it goes without saying that everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. Your mileage may vary. :-)
No, you are exactly right and I agree with everything you said. I was very casual and tossed off a post on a serious subject without fully explaining myself. I do feel that, once on the correct meds, there will be a larger reaction during the withdrawel for such a patient than might be the case (notice, "might") if they stop their meds. That is the total extent of the conventional wisdom from my time on an ambulance way back when (1970 to around 1976 in the NY City area). It's not that the meds make the condition worse, it's that the withdrawel from the meds can exagerate the symptoms that might (notice, "might") have not been so severe had they not taken the meds in the first place. Of course, that assumes that they could have gone on without the meds, which is a big (and probably wrong) assumption. As I read what you wrote on the subject I think you're saying the same thing and I think you're saying it much better than I have.
And the comments about the sedative/hypnotics are exactly in line with (but much better stated) than what I have understood to be the case.
I got out of the business all those years ago because I could no longer deal with the emotional price I had to pay. I was never bothered by an emergency, no matter how traumatic (except crispy critters) because I had a job to do and was able to turn off all emotional reaction. But on a professional ambulance you are mostly doing "routine transports" from hospital to hospital, nursing home to doctor or some type of treatment or therapy. Under those circumstances you have to allow some sort of emotional connection to the person you are transporting. What's worst was the regular appointments, "Bob on Thursday morning" or "Martha's weekly accupuncture treatment for MS." You get to know the people. You (I) can't avoid developing bonds and caring. You either watch them go on with the treatment not making any improvement or, the worst thing, showing up one morning and being told "oh, we're sorry, we forgot to call you and cancel..."
Although I will wait to see the transcript of this show, I saw this note a while ago on another forum:
"On Catherine Crier -- Farese says no medical documentation of pre existing mental condition"
Doesn't seem like he would be saying this now, with all the things floating around that he has already said in the past few days alluding to her mental condition being very poor and PPD being a possibility. Perhaps the poster got it wrong. Will wait and see.
Yeah. What YOU said. LOL!
Thanks for the response. Have a good evening!
The only news I've heard about this case is what I catch in the evenings that comes across Fox & CNN. Thanks for the update! I don't know WHAT to think about this case.
What's worst was the regular appointments, "Bob on Thursday morning" or "Martha's weekly accupuncture treatment for MS." You get to know the people. You (I) can't avoid developing bonds and caring. You either watch them go on with the treatment not making any improvement or, the worst thing, showing up one morning and being told "oh, we're sorry, we forgot to call you and cancel..."
I understand exactly what you're saying. It's so much worse when you get to know them. And their families... that's even worse. Burnout is big in those professions and you gave the EXACT reason why. :-(
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