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Tax officials' advice eases tension over Indian cigarette sales
United Pro Smoker's Newsletter ^ | March 18, 2006

Posted on 03/18/2006 5:43:31 PM PST by SheLion

BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) _ The state Department of Taxation and Finance has advised a Buffalo cigarette wholesaler it can ignore a new law requiring tax collection on tobacco products sold to Seneca Nation and other Indian businesses.

That eased tensions on Indian reservations in western New York where nervous suppliers cut off shipments to smoke shops earlier in the week. Indians accuse the state of ignoring their sovereignty. In 1997, the last time the state tried to collect the tobacco taxes, confrontations between Senecas and state police closed a section of the Thruway.

By noon Friday, supplier Milhem Attea & Bros. resumed shipping cigarettes to Seneca smoke shops, spokeswoman Rosemary Saffire said. "We have it in writing, so we can take it to a judge and say, "Look, we have permission,"' she said.

In the letter, the Tax Department said it had a "long-standing policy of allowing untaxed cigarettes" to be sold to Indian retailers. The agency noted Gov. George Pataki had proposed changing the law that kicked in March 1.

One idea was to delay implementation. The State Senate and Assembly earlier this week rejected that.

State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has warned wholesalers that, no matter what the Tax Department claims, the cigarette tax collection law is in effect. His aides have said wholesalers who ship untaxed cigarettes to Indian retailers face possible prosecution.

Spitzer said Friday during a stop in Buffalo, "You can't announce to the world that a law will simply be ignored and not enforced." He said he would talk to the Pataki administration and that he would "act in a very measured, careful manner, hopefully in conjunction with the executive" branch.

Joseph Crangle, counsel to the Senecas, said the Tax Department disagrees with Spitzer, "and they're the ones in charge of saying what the state tax law is, not the attorney general." Richard E. Nephew, chief executive officer of the Seneca Nation, said the Tax Department letter "sounds like probably a temporary fix."

The Senecas have long maintained that 19th century treaties protect them from the state taxing the nation's products. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, ruled in 1994 that the state could collect taxes on sales to non-Indians.

On the Cattaraugus Reservation, where dozens of smoke shops are located near the Thruway, several shop owners and workers said they were optimistic.

On the Tuscarora Reservation, residents gathered by a bonfire Friday night near Randy's Smoke Shop with signs urging passing motorists to support treaties.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: anti; antismokers; augusta; bans; budget; butts; camel; caribou; chicago; cigar; cigarettes; cigarettetax; commerce; epa; fda; governor; individual; interstate; kool; lawmakers; lewiston; liberty; maine; mainesmokers; marlboro; msa; niconazis; osha; pallmall; pipe; portland; prosmoker; quitsmoking; regulation; rico; rights; rinos; ryo; sales; senate; smokers; smoking; smokingbans; taxes; tobacco; winston
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1 posted on 03/18/2006 5:43:42 PM PST by SheLion
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To: The Foolkiller; Just another Joe; Madame Dufarge; Cantiloper; metesky; kattracks; Judith Anne; ...

2 posted on 03/18/2006 5:44:16 PM PST by SheLion (Trying to make a life in the BLUE state of Maine!)
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To: SheLion

Just one more treaty broken. What putz our legislature is to not stand by treaties for the people we ripped off for this country. Don't get me wrong, I am a patriot, I am for america, but I also understand that these people OWNED this country before we came here and took it from them. The least we can do now is to honor our treaties. No taxes for revervation lands because they are not part of the US!


3 posted on 03/18/2006 5:51:58 PM PST by calex59 (seeing the light shouldn't make you go blind and, BTW, Stå sammen med danskerne !)
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To: SheLion

Thank you for the PING!


4 posted on 03/18/2006 5:56:00 PM PST by stone fortress
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To: calex59

I think the Indians were treated horribly but I disagree. They are part of the United States.


5 posted on 03/18/2006 5:57:41 PM PST by CindyDawg
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To: SheLion

Eliot "I'm making a name for myself whatever the cost" Spitzer at it again. This guy is headed for an elected position I guarantee it. The only questions are what, when, and where. The party is well known for the type of activities he specializes in.


6 posted on 03/18/2006 5:58:14 PM PST by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: calex59

"but I also understand that these people OWNED this country before we came here and took it from them. The least we can do now is to honor our treaties. No taxes for revervation lands because they are not part of the US!"

No, they used the land, often abused it, then moved on to use/abuse other lands. And where in the world haven't new civilizations moved in on old civilizations? I object to morals that apply only to "bad white America" while allowing a pass to the rest of the world.

Seriously, I understand your point but, frankly, the best thing we could have done is phased out the reservation system decades ago. I grew up next to a reservation and watched Indian kids be pulled back into the dysfunctional tribal lands lifestyle like crabs in a pot trying to make a break for it. The tribal elders would not allow the kids to participate in the school's extra-curricular activites. They looked down on any Indian with a work ethic as un-Indian and ostracized anyone who even had the audacity to build and maintain a decent home on the reservation. Today, 35 years later, that reservation is still mired in poverty and alcoholism and cronyism. A lot of the kids my age committed suicide in their early twenties, or slow suicide now.

But if you want the Indian reservations to be sovereign, then treat them as foreign governments with all the restrictions that apply to other foreign governments: Forbid lobbying, and political contributions, and immigration, and so forth. Unworkable? So is the ridiculous system we have now.

We need to come up with something that unites this country instead of dividing it.


7 posted on 03/18/2006 6:10:23 PM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things.)
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To: SheLion

http://buffalobeast.com/43/seneca.html


8 posted on 03/18/2006 6:11:07 PM PST by stone fortress
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To: SheLion

The states do not have jurisdiction over tribal lands...this is well established in US Courts. In our state some vehicles from reservations have tribal not state license plates and white guys fishing on the reservation need a tribal license. I seriously doubt that Native American smoke shops on tribal lands will be paying the white man's tax.


9 posted on 03/18/2006 6:23:45 PM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: CindyDawg
They are part of the United States.

They are now US Citizens, a status that's less than a hundred years ago. But if you want their land being part of the United States, that constitution needs to be changed.
10 posted on 03/18/2006 6:26:36 PM PST by kingu (Liberalism: The art of sticking your fingers in your ears and going NANANANA..)
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To: The Great RJ
In our state some vehicles from reservations have tribal not state license plates[...]

Driving with some of these license plates in California is a quick way to get a ticket. The Highway Patrol doesn't always seem to recognize them as being legitimate.
11 posted on 03/18/2006 6:28:05 PM PST by kingu (Liberalism: The art of sticking your fingers in your ears and going NANANANA..)
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To: kingu

I'm ok with that. I was talkig about not being a part of the U.S.


12 posted on 03/18/2006 6:30:19 PM PST by CindyDawg
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To: caseinpoint
They owned the land, whether they abused it or not. Did we not abuse it when we got here? Did we not raped the forest and kill most of the game before we finally figured it out? These people lived here for thousands of years, maybe longer, and there were millions of game animals when we got here, 3 million, or ever more depending on who you listen to, bison, millions of deer, thank god we got them back. Millions of passenger pigeons we didn't get back because they are gone forever.

You dare talk about them abusing the land after what the early americans did?

The treaties with the native americans should be honored, no taxes for them, and less taxes for us. I am for freedom, if you are for slavery them become a dimwit because they are the party of slavery!

13 posted on 03/18/2006 6:33:27 PM PST by calex59 (seeing the light shouldn't make you go blind and, BTW, Stå sammen med danskerne !)
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To: SheLion

What the hell is Spitzer running for, the Czar of the World?


14 posted on 03/18/2006 6:34:10 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: kingu

Complete the conquest.


15 posted on 03/18/2006 6:49:35 PM PST by Technocrat
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To: calex59

I am for America and I don't believe that keeping American Indians on the reservation is good for them in the long run. It is the reservation system that perpetuates slavery.

As for the abuse, I said nothing about what the whites did. Yes, there were abuses but don't make it sound as though the Indians were some utopian society where everyone lived in peace, harmony and health until the white man showed up. They were nomadic tribes, for the most part, caught in their own societal problems, just as every other society.

Do you really think it is healthy to maintain reservations as they are, like zoos in the midst of another society? What happens when the casino boom collapses? Can't you see even now how the casino tribes are pitting themselves against the non-casino tribes? Is it not unbecoming of the Indians to argue who is and isn't an Indian based on who gets a share of the casino goodies? Is it not demeaning to human nature to have to ask permission of the Bureau of Indian Affairs or some cronied Indian tribal council to do anything? Is it really healthy to encourage a separate lifestyle in this most democratic nation in the world?

You are wrong about me. I am not prejudiced against Native Americans and I don't advocate slavery. I want them to join the mainstream and enjoy all the benefits of American citizenship and Native American culture in the same way that all other Americans enjoy both American culture and their ancestral cultures. I would love to see them maintain their tribal affiliation without it being an albatross around their necks. I think it can be done, but not with the current system of tying all Indians benefits to tribal membership and control.

It's way past time for Indians to find the best means to incorporate their own culture with that of America. Were they abused by white colonists? Of course. Should that abuse continue today with the condescending system of reservations today? I say no. Nor do I believe that encouraging self-sufficiency and integration is a mainstay of the Democratic Party so I think I will maintain my current conservative affiliation, thank you.


16 posted on 03/18/2006 8:05:06 PM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things.)
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To: caseinpoint

Most reservations choose to remain sovereign. They don't want to mainstream, and if that is the case, more power to them. The Amish live very nicely in their own communities, and God Bless them for it. They are doing a better job of keeping their communities clean and family oriented than we are.

No the poverty on some of the reservations isn't good, but to force mainstreaming and take away their sovereignty is wrong.


17 posted on 03/18/2006 8:19:33 PM PST by gidget7 (Get GLDSEN out of our schools!!)
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To: gidget7

"Most reservations choose to remain sovereign."

Yes, most tribes want to remain sovereign, but is it in the best interests of the individual members of the tribe or just the power structure of the tribe? Like I said, if they wish to remain sovereign, then treat them like foreign nations. Right now they have the benefits of American citizenship but a lot fewer responsibilities. If Indian tribes wish to be sovereign, then they shouldn't be voting in US elections, contributing to US politicians or lobbying without full disclosure required of other foreign nations.

I have no problem with groups maintaining a cultural identity of their own. The Amish do that admirably. So do many other cultural groups. The problem I have with the tribe and reservation system right now is that benefits given to Indian citizens are dependent for the most part on their remaining on the reservations, and too many reservations are economic sinkholes. If Native Americans are entitled to certain benefits, they should be extended to them regardless of whether they continue to live on the reservations or if they choose to integrate with society at large.

I think the reservation system fosters dependency and an us-versus-them mentality. I saw myself how Indians youths were being held back from joining mainstream by their elders and by BIA policies. I still don't think it is healthy in the long run for them. I still believe the government should start a forty or fifty-year phase-out of the reservations and recognize Native Americans as individuals instead of tribal members.


18 posted on 03/18/2006 8:40:11 PM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things.)
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To: SheLion

Thanks for the ping!


19 posted on 03/18/2006 9:14:03 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Old Professer
What the hell is Spitzer running for, the Czar of the World?

I think so.  You see what a "little" power does to some.  Just makes them want more.  I can visulize him wearing a CROWN on his head around his home at night.  Jerk.

20 posted on 03/19/2006 4:26:50 AM PST by SheLion (Trying to make a life in the BLUE state of Maine!)
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