Posted on 10/19/2005 5:10:52 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
One of intelligent design's leading experts could not identify the driving force behind the concept.
In his writings supporting intelligent design, Michael Behe, a Lehigh University biochemistry professor and author of "Darwin's Black Box," said that "intelligent design theory focuses exclusively on proposed mechanisms of how complex biological structures arose."
But during cross examination Tuesday, when plaintiffs' attorney Eric Rothschild asked Behe to identify those mechanisms, he couldn't.
When pressed, Behe said intelligent design does not propose a step-by-step mechanism, but one can still infer intelligent cause was involved by the "purposeful arrangement of parts."
Behe is the leading expert in the Dover Area School District's defense of its biology curriculum, which requires students to be made aware of intelligent design.
The First Amendment trial in U.S. Middle District Court is the first legal challenge to the inclusion of intelligent design in science class. At issue is whether it belongs in public school along with evolutionary theory.
In his work, "On the Origin of Species," Charles Darwin identified natural selection as the force driving evolutionary change in living organisms.
But Behe argued that natural selection alone cannot account for the complexity of life.
After Behe could not identify intelligent design's mechanism for change, Rothschild asked him if intelligent design then isn't just a negative argument against natural selection.
Behe disagreed, reiterating his statement that intelligent design is the purposeful arrangement of parts.
The bulk of Behe's testimony Monday and Tuesday had been on his concept of "irreducible complexity," the idea that in order for many organisms to evolve at the cellular level, multiple systems would have had to arise simultaneously. In many cases, he said, this is a mathematical impossibility.
He compared intelligent design to the Big Bang theory, in that when it was first proposed, some scientists dismissed it for its potential implications that God triggered the explosion.
He also said he is aware that the Big Bang theory was eventually accepted and has been peer-reviewed in scientific journals, and that intelligent design has been panned as revamped creationism by almost every mainstream scientific organization.
Rothschild asked Behe if he was aware that the National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science both oppose its teaching in public school science classes, and even that Behe's colleagues have taken a position against it.
Behe knew of the academies' positions and said they misunderstand and mischaracterize intelligent design.
Behe also said he was aware that Lehigh University's Department of Biology faculty has posted a statement on its Web site that says, "While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific."
Earlier in the day, Behe had said under direct testimony that a creationist doesn't need any physical evidence to understand life's origins.
So creationism is "vastly 180 degrees different from intelligent design," he said.
Still, Behe said he believes that the intelligent designer is God.
In his article, "A Response to Critics of Darwin's Black Box," Behe wrote that intelligent design is "less plausible to those for whom God's existence is in question and is much less plausible for those who deny God's existence."
After referring to the article, Rothschild asked, "That's a God-friendly theory, Mr. Behe. Isn't it?"
Behe argued he was speaking from a philosophical view, much as Oxford University scientist Richard Dawkins was when he said Darwin's theory made it possible to be "an intellectually fulfilled atheist."
"Arguing from the scientific data only takes you so far," Behe said.
In the absence of precisely stated constitutional prohibitions, we must draw lines with reference to the three main evils against which the Establishment Clause was intended to afford protection: "sponsorship, financial support, and active involvement of the sovereign in religious activity." [citation omitted]BURGER, C. J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which BLACK, DOUGLAS, HARLAN, STEWART, MARSHALL (as to Nos. 569 and 570), and BLACKMUN, JJ., joined. DOUGLAS, J., filed a concurring opinion, post, p. 625, in which BLACK, J., joined, and in which MARSHALL, J. (as to Nos. 569 and 570), joined, filing a separate statement, post, p. 642. BRENNAN, J., filed a concurring opinion, post, p. 642. WHITE, J., filed an opinion concurring in the judgment in No. 89 and dissenting in Nos. 569 and 570, post, p. 661. MARSHALL, J., took no part in the consideration or decision of No. 89.Every analysis in this area must begin with consideration of the cumulative criteria developed by the Court over many years. Three such tests may be gleaned from our cases. First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion [citations omitted], finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."
[big snip]
Our prior holdings do not call for total separation between church and state; total separation is not possible in an absolute sense. Some relationship between government and religious organizations is inevitable. [citations omitted]. Fire inspections, building and zoning regulations, and state requirements under compulsory school-attendance laws are examples of necessary and permissible contacts. Indeed, under the statutory exemption before us in Walz, the State had a continuing burden to ascertain that the exempt property was in fact being used for religious worship. Judicial caveats against entanglement must recognize that the line of separation, far from being a "wall," is a blurred, indistinct, and variable barrier depending on all the circumstances of a particular relationship.
This is not to suggest, however, that we are to engage in a legalistic minuet in which precise rules and forms must govern. A true minuet is a matter of pure form and style, the observance of which is itself the substantive end. Here we examine the form of the relationship for the light that it casts on the substance.
In order to determine whether the government entanglement with religion is excessive, we must examine the character and purposes of the institutions that are benefited, the nature of the aid that the State provides, and the resulting relationship between the government and the religious authority.
[big snip]
In Walz it was argued that a tax exemption for places of religious worship would prove to be the first step in an inevitable progression leading to the establishment of state churches and state religion. That claim could not stand up against more than 200 years of virtually universal practice imbedded in our colonial experience and continuing into the present.
The progression argument, however, is more persuasive here. We have no long history of state aid to church-related educational institutions comparable to 200 years of tax exemption for churches. Indeed, the state programs before us today represent something of an innovation. We have already noted that modern governmental programs have self-perpetuating and self-expanding propensities. These internal pressures are only enhanced when the schemes involve institutions whose legitimate needs are growing and whose interests have substantial political support. Nor can we fail to see that in constitutional adjudication some steps, which when taken were thought to approach "the verge," have become the platform for yet further steps. A certain momentum develops in constitutional theory and it can be a "downhill thrust" easily set in motion but difficult to retard or stop. Development by momentum is not invariably bad; indeed, it is the way the common law has grown, but it is a force to be recognized and reckoned with. The dangers are increased by the difficulty of perceiving in advance exactly where the "verge" of the precipice lies. As well as constituting an independent evil against which the Religion Clauses were intended to protect, involvement or entanglement between government and religion serves as a warning signal.
Finally, nothing we have said can be construed to disparage the role of church-related elementary and secondary schools in our national life. Their contribution has been and is enormous. Nor do we ignore their economic plight in a period of rising costs and expanding need. Taxpayers generally have been spared vast sums by the maintenance of these educational institutions by religious organizations, largely by the gifts of faithful adherents.
The merit and benefits of these schools, however, are not the issue before us in these cases. The sole question is whether state aid to these schools can be squared with the dictates of the Religion Clauses. Under our system the choice has been made that government is to be entirely excluded from the area of religious instruction and churches excluded from the affairs of government. The Constitution decrees that religion must be a private matter for the individual, the family, and the institutions of private choice, and that while some involvement and entanglement are inevitable, lines must be drawn.
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First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose;is there anyone who imagines that the mandatory ID statement which the Dover school board imposed on the schools can pass that test? (Don't get hung up on the word "statute." The school board's mandate undoubtedly qualifies as "state action" under the 14th Amendment.)second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion,
finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."
By the way, in Selman v. Cobb County School District, the Georgia textbook sticker case, the court cited and relied on the Lemon test. But there's a bit of Supreme Court politics involved here. In Tangipahoa Parish Board of Education v. Freiler, a creationism case where the Supreme Court denied certiorari, Rehnquist, Scalia & Thomas indicated that they'd like to re-visit the Lemon test. So it's going to be a long and bumpy ride.
He's exactly right. But that happens to be precisely as far as a public school science class is supposed to take its pupils, and that's what this debate is about.
"Earlier in the day, Behe had said under direct testimony that a creationist doesn't need any physical evidence to understand life's origins."
Let's all unite in repeating that phrase. Let's make "God-Centered" part of its name: instead of talking about "ID", everyone should talk about "GCID", just as people talk about "White Separatist Randy Weaver", "The Tech-Heavy NASDAQ", or "Rocker Tommy Lee".
Thanks for the ping!
Isn't it just a little early in the day for paranoid complexes?
That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Have you any idea what the reward would be, in fame and grants, for any scientist who could find evidence that Darwin was incorrect?
You're trying to have it both ways - insisting that the "vast majority still won't buy it" and then turning around and presenting creationist scientists as so timid, so afraid, that they hide their discoveries out of fear. That's nonsense on its face.
I home school, but certainly not because Evolution is wrong. I do it because the math/science education in this country is so deplorable. I decided I couldn't constantly tell my boys that their teachers were wrong without undermining confidence and discipline. So I teach them math and science at home and I teach them cutting edge concepts and I teach the Evolution and the voluminous data in its support.
People who home school for education purposes are trying to avoid reality. I am trying to give my kids a real understanding of science. I don't want them to be illiterate.
Behe's doing extremely well for himself just by making the suggestion, without any evidence at all. Maybe he's not getting the grant money, but that's OK: God has found a surer way to provide for him.
education = religious
Sigh, it's early.
Exactly. Which proves my point - there will always be kooks waiting to financially reward people like Behe, to support their politically correct agenda.
The notion that scientists hide creationist views out of fear that they'll be bankrupted is simply absurd.
"No university is gonna go against Darwin just as very few scientists are willing to risk their funding by stating that maybe, just maybe Darwin is wrong. Thank goodness for homeschooling."
I'm sorry, but that just makes no sense at all. And I'm not sure that homeschooling on the university level is a very good idea.
It would sort of be like breast-feeding a 6-year-old. Doable, but pretty wierd.
" I am trying to give my kids a real understanding of science. I don't want them to be illiterate."
During cross examination Tuesday, plaintiffs attorney Eric Rothschild questioned Behe about an article Behe wrote in a journal called Biology and Philosophy where he combined his ideas on intelligent design and a belief in God.All of this is aimed at fitting the school board's actions within the Lemon test. Behe isn't helping his cause.Rothschild characterized intelligent design in the writings as a God-friendly theory.
But Behe maintained he was writing from a philosophical standpoint.
Why is it premissible to publicly promote godlessness but not God?
Why is godlessness good but Judeo/Christianity bad?
Historically, which countries were most apt to become despotic crapholes where the people were oppressed and raped and murdered, Christian centered ones or godless ones?
Will the US be better off when the ACLU finally manages to completely eliminate Christianity from public life like they did in the USSR, Cuba, and China?
"And no matter how hard they try to stuff Darwinism down students' throats, the vast majority still won't buy it. I think all this grandstanding on both sides is a great waste of time and money."
Source? Or did you make that up?
"Historically, which countries were most apt to become despotic crapholes where the people were oppressed and raped and murdered, Christian centered ones or godless ones? "
Well, actually, the answer appears to be: both.
The reality is that countries where a megalomaniacal despot is in charge tend to do those things. Stalin and Hitler are good examples. Stalin's country was atheistic. Hitler's country was predominantly Roman Catholic and Lutheran.
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