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Racial differences of opinion
US News & World Report ^ | 9/16/05 | Michael Barone

Posted on 09/16/2005 7:09:28 PM PDT by flixxx

Racial differences of opinion

Here's an uncomfortable subject: Why do black Americans see some issues so totally differently from the way nonblack Americans see them?

The obvious examples before us are the polls that show large majorities of blacks saying that the Bush administration slowed relief to Katrina victims because so many of them were black, and large majorities of whites saying just the opposite. (Pause for factual note: Most Katrina victims, of course, were white: Orleans Parish has a black majority, but the other Louisiana parishes and the Mississippi and Alabama counties hit by Katrina have white majorities.) Here are results from a USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll conducted September 8 to 11.

Just your best guess, do you think one reason the federal government was slow in rescuing these people was because many of them were black, or was that not a reason?

(snip)---((table did not reproduce well))

I am reminded of the polls taken immediately after O.J. Simpson's criminal trial, which showed that a large majority of blacks thought he was not guilty and a larger majority of whites thought he was guilty. At the time, I wondered whether black respondents really believed he had not killed his wife or whether they were just expressing something in the nature of solidarity with him. Looking at results like these, I wonder something similar: Aren't these black respondents just expressing their dislike or even hatred for George W. Bush, rather than embracing the absurd position that the federal government would move slowly to rescue people because many of them—many, not most, as Gallup was careful to ask—were black?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
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To: mhking
But instead of making demands on us (especially considering that we DO appear when asked), how about you go after the MSM and their fixation with granting an audience whenever Jesse Jackson sneezes? Why is it incumbent upon us to "prove ourselves"?

Those, my friend, were the questions that were begging to be asked. On another thread about "reasonable blacks" believing that the levee in New Orleans was bombed by President Bush, I asked why were the MSM's assertions being taken at face value? We here question the MSM and don't trust them, yet in this case it's okay to believe what they say?

I don't think so.


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

221 posted on 09/18/2005 11:46:14 AM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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To: FOG724

"Racists should not be tolerated in polite society. Period."

Not that I would in any way agree that I am a racist, but by your logic perhaps we should take all racists out and shoot them. How about all Marxists? How about anyone who doesn't think the way you do?


222 posted on 09/18/2005 1:15:23 PM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: mhking
"What do I look like, chopped liver?"

Not at all, I just saying that speaking out here on FR is not going to convince any Democrat voters that intelligent decent, wonderful, blacks can be conservative and not be "Toms"

I am sick and damn tired of having to justify all of black America based on the actions of a significant few who have ready access to a camera."

All I have been saying, or trying to say (and apparently doing a poor job of it), is that most people view groups as monolithic. It's not fair, it's not intelligent, it's not logical, but it is easy and it is the way things are, so until we live in a perfect world, do what you can to counter it and then get on with your life. Life is inherently "unfair." Now realizing that being black has an historical reference that fat people don't have (I don't believe that fat people have ever been lynched), and not to trivialize your arguments, but as a fat person who has spent his entire life trying to lose weight, it's not fair, to me, that fat people are the butt of jokes which are perfectly acceptable in any company, or that fat people are discriminated against in trying to get employment but that it is not an EOE issue. Obesity is at least 50% genetic, but that is not a protection for me. So what do I do? I grin and tolerate it. I try to see the humor in it. I am left-handed completely not my fault it is genetic. Not fair but I manage to get by.

"I don't have that kind of luxury. But I have been happy and proud to appear when asked. Other black conservatives do the same thing day in and day out."

I applaud you for that but do you seek out the opportunities, do you go to black political fora and try to post articles and opinion pieces? I realize that can be difficult because a lot of fora do not allow contrary opinions (like FR). Perhaps we too should be more tolerant of so-called trolls?
223 posted on 09/18/2005 1:40:58 PM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: mhking
"But instead of making demands on us (especially considering that we DO appear when asked), how about you go after the MSM and their fixation with granting an audience whenever Jesse Jackson sneezes? Why is it incumbent upon us to "prove ourselves"?"

Lastly, I do very often in editorials, which I publish on Mens New Daily under my own name, go after the MSM for every liberal bias they demonstrate, but as a white person, I can not take up your cause. The first response I would get is that I just don't understand, I'm not black. Look at the responses I got here from rbd3 and umbagi, even when I try to be reasonable, I am castigated and eventually led by my emotions to make statements out of retaliation which are racist. You have to prove your selves because that's just the way the ball bounces in this society. The problem, as I see it, is that you are expecting perfection from all Americans-expecting us to see through the screen of the MSM and see that many blacks are not the whining looting give me, give me, people which they see on their television, but that is probably never going to happen. I live to a great extent in one of the most color blind communities in Houston, that is the chemical addiction recovery community. I have a great many friends-true life-saving friends in my life. Some are black, some are hispanic, and some are white makes no difference to me. We have a spiritual bond which goes way beyond color. Even then, I cannot connect to them over politics. They are die-hard Democrats and will not even listen to me on politics, so instead we joke about it. That is life. Sorry to be so wordy.
224 posted on 09/18/2005 1:59:26 PM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven; rdb3; umbagi; Petronski; Admin Moderator
You have to prove your selves because that's just the way the ball bounces in this society.

Not here; not on FR.

With the exception of those on FR who continually bash me and those around me with broad-brushed strokes that are both insulting and demeaning.

There is no logical reason for it; there is no gentlemanly reason for it; finally, there is no reason that I should have to sit here and have to accept it from you or anyone else.

As I've said elsewhere, this is supposed to be a haven for conservatives and libertarians (little "L") of all stripes - a place where we can have rational and scholarly discussions without having to play footsie to satisfy the racially-tinged whims of people who whine about how nebulous "blacks" are responsible for all the ills in America; a place where I don't have to worry about antagonistic individuals toss all sorts of veiled insinuations and outright insults my way or toward those I care about simply because they are black.

Finally, let's talk about what rdb3 and others have said -- they are as frustrated and angry as I am at the same kinds of things that I am angry about. FR has degenerated into a place where a certain sub-set of the whole has found it wonderful, glorious and "great" to denigrate blacks, and lump us all into an ill-concieved basket. For what reason? Hell, I don't know.

There are some here who want to just pat me on the head, saying 'there, there, we don't really mean to insult you; why don't you just go sit in the corner and be quiet - after all, there aren't really any racists on FR' -- despite myriad evidence to the contrary. There is also evidence of infiltration, both attempted and successful, from places on the web filled with all sorts of white-power-fueled hatred and venom. Yet from some quarters, we're branded alarmists, troublemakers, drama queens.

After reading some of your comments, they can very easily be taken to be not unlike other race-baiters here. At a different time here, they would most likely be taken as food for thought and a solid conversation starter. But at this time, a measure (one I'd hope you could understand, but as a comparative 'newbie', I would be able to forgive you for not understanding) of wariness and defensiveness is the order of the day; I hope that will end, but not today.

225 posted on 09/18/2005 2:21:34 PM PDT by mhking (The world needs a wake up call gentlemen...we're gonna phone it in.)
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To: mhking; rdb3
I will add my two cents to this thread. In the area of race relations I see over 40 years of failed policies which have had a terrible effect on the black community. Yes it is true that more whites are on welfare but a disproportionate number of blacks are on some kind of public assistance as well. The nanny state has produced a dependence on government like never before by poor blacks. This has robbed many blacks of self reliance and independence. I also see 40 plus years of failed democratic policy when it comes to the poor. I wish the 87% of black folks that voted democrat could see it too.

The so called black leadership was a total failure. I didn't see the CBC, Sharpton, Jackson et al calling for calm and to put a stop to the looting. No they came in after the fact and used the race card. I look at New Orleans and I am ashamed that there is no morality or sense of right and wrong. Yes the media bears a responsibility but blacks who try to live that thug life are to blame as well. I have heard so much BS from liberal black leaders that I can't stand it. From bombing the levee's to Bush hates black people and the Astrodome looked like a slave ship. Too many people have opened their homes and wallets for me to think this country full of racists. This is not to say that racism doesn't exist but a more servile form exists in the soft bigotry of low expectations. I expect all people to obey the laws of the land and make something of themselves. These old guard black "leaders" have got to go. It is time for new blood and I am not talking about Obama because he is MOTS (More of the Same).

The America I grew up in was alot different then the America which my mother and father came up in. I think it is time to take the gloves off when it comes to race, racism and racialism as well.

226 posted on 09/18/2005 2:21:38 PM PDT by Warrior Nurse (Black & white liberals practice intellectual apartheid when it comes to black conservatives!)
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To: WillMalven
Look at the responses I got here from rbd3 [sic] and umbagi, even when I try to be reasonable, I am castigated and eventually led by my emotions to make statements out of retaliation which are racist.

Even under phony duress, why would you make retaliatory statements which are "racist" if you weren't racist from the start? Can't have one without the other.

Physician, heal thyself. Don't go swinging your sword at others for what you are guilty of yourself. And excusing it by blaming others for retaliation is different from non-thinking blacks exactly how?


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

227 posted on 09/18/2005 2:32:07 PM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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To: WillMalven
I am castigated and eventually led by my emotions to make statements out of retaliation which are racist.

Yeah, the racist statements aren't your fault, you're led to make them out of emotion.

Be a frickin' man and take responsibility for your own words.




[puke]

228 posted on 09/18/2005 2:37:09 PM PDT by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: rdb3

simply to elicit a response. Have you never baited anyone?


229 posted on 09/18/2005 2:38:10 PM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: flixxx

bookmk ping


230 posted on 09/18/2005 2:42:09 PM PDT by Dad yer funny
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To: WillMalven
I am tired of the endless "blame the whites" refrain coming from blacks.

No.

What has been tiring you is racism.




Racist comments and behaviors are the evil here. Racism is ugly. Racism is like an entire magazine of 7.62 sprayed into a crowd. Who the hell cares who's pulling the trigger in that scenario?

Focus on the poisonous problem: racism.

231 posted on 09/18/2005 2:43:37 PM PDT by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: mhking; WillMalven
There is also evidence of infiltration, both attempted and successful, from places on the web filled with all sorts of white-power-fueled hatred and venom. Yet from some quarters, we're branded alarmists, troublemakers, drama queens.

Conspiratorial? I report. You decide.

White Nationalist Group Targets Free Republic For Infiltration


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

232 posted on 09/18/2005 2:44:07 PM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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To: WillMalven; Admin Moderator
simply to elicit a response. Have you never baited anyone?

So you admit to race-baiting -- even when others in addition to rdb3 have castigated you for such behavior? Even when many people here have cited the problems that exist as a result of that sort of behavior?

Well, excuse the hell outta me.

233 posted on 09/18/2005 2:45:06 PM PDT by mhking (The world needs a wake up call gentlemen...we're gonna phone it in.)
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To: WillMalven
Have you never baited anyone?

I can't tell if you're criticizing the idea or recommending it.

234 posted on 09/18/2005 2:45:12 PM PDT by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: Petronski

No what is tiring is people blaming others for their own situation and expecting them to fix it for them


235 posted on 09/18/2005 2:47:01 PM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: WillMalven

Ooooh. Do tell!

Who are the blamers and who are the others?


236 posted on 09/18/2005 2:48:48 PM PDT by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: WillMalven
No what is tiring is people blaming others for their own situation and expecting them to fix it for them

Now that is one place where we agree. However, broad-brushed antagonism will not solve the problem; likewise, antagonizing those working to fix the problem does not help either.

237 posted on 09/18/2005 2:51:12 PM PDT by mhking (The world needs a wake up call gentlemen...we're gonna phone it in.)
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To: WillMalven
Have you never baited anyone?

No. Never.


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

238 posted on 09/18/2005 3:00:36 PM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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Comment #239 Removed by Moderator

To: sit-rep
And after an honest internal debate, I have come to the conclusion, you guys are paranoid...

And you are as blind as Stevie Wonder.

It is not the white man's fault he sees the majority of wrongs committed in NO were from blacks.

And if you truly understood what this debate was all about, you'd know that this was never even a part of the discussion!

The problem is the fact that you all, and a few others, refuse to say, "Okay(slamming the hand down on the desk) this is the problem", and be unwaivering with your hypothesis. You can point fingers and shut everyone in the room up, but no one will give you an once of respect, if after the room is quite, you sit down and not give the answers. This is where I fault you guys...

Wrong again. You have some rather selective reading going on there.


If you want a Google GMail account, FReepmail me.
They're going fast!

240 posted on 09/18/2005 3:10:01 PM PDT by rdb3 (NON-conservative, American exceptionalist here.)
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