Posted on 06/16/2005 8:28:05 AM PDT by Pyro7480
My own feelings on Beethoven are mixed. He did write beautiful music, especially his piano pieces (I was a piano student in another life). His compositions were revolutionary, and as is shown on this thread, his legacy is quite debatable.
I own three Beethoven CD's, all of which I would recommend. They are:
The motion was already in place during Mozart's time, as anyone listening to the 41st (God, why did they name it "Jupiter?") can readily discern. Since we're already playing with abstractions here I'll advance one - that the general motion was from music as representative of an interrelationship between intellectual ideas to music as representative of an interrelationship between broad passions. Neither Bach nor Mozart nor anyone in between is passionless, of course, but the sensation of a struggle between titanic forces is very different between these composers. It can go too far, IMHO - music as an expression of pure passion and no intellect at all is essentially structureless and unsatisfying except to brutes. That describes a fair slice of modern culture, not just modern music.
Bernard Rose left Hollywood and went to Europe after "Immortal Beloved." Warner brothers owns his film and has it in a vault, and never allowed Rose to release a "director's cut." He became bitter by the whole process, his lack of control over his art, and the fact that the studio did not promote the film or even Gary Oldman for an academy, even though his performance was stunning.
Actually the movie didn't even get into the half of it. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it and would recommend it. But Beethoven nuts hate it. There is NO credible evidence that the sil was the IB.
Okay, but moving on from that, the film was about Beethoven, and I thought it was true to his own words.
I enjoyed it and was quite pleased that a movie about Beethoven had been made. Even if it had been crappy I would still have applauded just for the attempt.
Going deaf when you are a musician and composer will do that to you.
The late Dr. Karl Haas, who was the only decent thing on public radio, said that Mozart didn't particularly like the clarinet either, but I get tears in my eyes when I hear the Clarinet Concerto ( sorry, don't know the k number ) that was used in the movie "Out of Africa". Do yourself a favor and give it a listen.
And, to the British computer geek/professor/music critic who slams Beethoven in the OP, I say "Go suck eggs, twit!"
Mozart's Clarinet Quintet is awesome. I'll never forget David Shiffren playing that at a small brunch/concert over a decade ago. It was one of my first live classical concerts, and I was hooked. That clarinet was so sweet.
----It was much more than Beethoven that describes this cultural arc and more than he who were responsible for it. Not for nothing is he considered the cusp between the classical and the romantic in music - his era was the cusp between classical and romantic culture in general.----
Well said. The romantic movement in arts, letters, how people thought about the world walks right behind and also intertwines with the classical period...Compare Voltaire with Rousseau, for instance, or the American Revolution with the French, or the trappings of neo-classical inspired women's dress with the popularity of Goethe and Byron...
Beethoven Bedtime. Careful there -- the maestro was known to have a dagger on his night table in case he needed to kill himself.
Martha Argerich is always wonderful. Whoever sells her at 12% off is an idiot. Also check out Rado Lupu.
I don't remember Klemperer. I know I should.
If you volunteered to be a "pingmeister", I'd like to be on the "lizst" ;).
I agree. Even his "easy" sonatas are tough to play.
For my brothers Carl and Johann Beethoven
Oh you men who think or say that I am malevolent, stubborn, or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me? You do not know the secret cause which makes me seem that way to you. From childhood on, me heart and soul have been full of the tender feeling of goodwill, and I was ever inclined to accomplish great things. But, think that for six years now I have been hopelessly afflicted, made worse by senseless physicians, from year to year deceived with hopes of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible). Though born with a fiery, active temperament, even susceptible to the diversions of society, I was soon compelled to withdraw myself, to live life alone. If at times I tried to forget all this, oh how harshly I was I flung back by the doubly sad experience of my bad hearing. Yet it was impossible for me to say to people, "Speak louder, shout, for I am deaf." Ah, how could I possibly admit an infirmity in the one sense which ought to be more perfect in me than others, a sense which I once possessed in the highest perfection, a perfection such as few in my profession enjoy or ever have enjoyed.--Oh I cannot do it; therefore forgive me when you see me draw back when I would have gladly mingled with you.
My misfortune is doubly painful to me because I am bound to be misunderstood; for me there can be no relaxation with my fellow men, no refined conversations, no mutual exchange of ideas. I must live almost alone, like one who has been banished; I can mix with society only as much as true necessity demands. If I approach near to people a hot terror seizes upon me, and I fear being exposed to the danger that my condition might be noticed. Thus it has been during the last six months which I have spent in the country. By ordering me to spare my hearing as much as possible, my intelligent doctor almost fell in with my own present frame of mind, though sometimes I ran counter to it by yielding to my desire for companionship. But what a humiliation for me when someone standing next to me heard a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or someone heard a shepherd singing and again I heard nothing. Such incidents drove me almost to despair; a little more of that and I would have ended me life -- it was only my art that held me back. Ah, it seemed to me impossible to leave the world until I had brought forth all that I felt was within me. So I endured this wretched existence -- truly wretched for so susceptible a body, which can be thrown by a sudden change from the best condition to the very worst. -- Patience, they say, is what I must now choose for my guide, and I have done so -- I hope my determination will remain firm to endure until it pleases the inexorable Parcae to break the thread. Perhaps I shall get better, perhaps not; I am ready. -- Forced to become a philosopher already in my twenty-eighth year, oh it is not easy, and for the artist much more difficult than for anyone else. 'Divine one, thou seest me inmost soul thou knowest that therein dwells the love of mankind and the desire to do good'. Oh fellow men, when at some point you read this, consider then that you have done me an injustice; someone who has had misfortune man console himself to find a similar case to his, who despite all the limitations of Nature nevertheless did everything within his powers to become accepted among worthy artists and men. 'You, my brothers Carl and [Johann], as soon as I am dead, if Dr. Schmidt is still alive, ask him in my name to describe my malady, and attach this written documentation to his account of my illness so that so far as it possible at least the world may become reconciled to me after my death".
At the same time, I declare you two to be the heirs to my small fortune (if so it can be called); divide it fairly; bear with and help each other. What injury you have done me you know was long ago forgiven. To you, brother Carl, I give special thanks for the attachment you have shown me of late. It is my wish that you may have a better and freer life than I have had. Recommend virtue to your children; it alone, not money, can make them happy. I speak from experience; this was what upheld me in time of misery. Thanks to it and to my art, I did not end my life by suicide -- Farewell and love each other -- I thank all my friends, particularly Prince Lichnowsky's and Professor Schmidt -- I would like the instruments from Prince L. to be preserved by one of you, but not to be the cause of strife between you, and as soon as they can serve you a better purpose, then sell them. How happy I shall be if can still be helpful to you in my grave -- so be it. -- With joy I hasten to meed death. -- If it comes before I have had the chance to develop all my artistic capacities, it will still be coming too soon despite my harsh fate, and I should probably wish it later -- yet even so I should be happy, for would it not free me from a state of endless suffering? -- Come when thou wilt, I shall meed thee bravely. -- Farewell and do not wholly forget me when I am dead; I deserve this from you, for during my lifetime I was thinking of you often and of ways to make you happy -- please be so --
Ludwig van Beethoven
Heiligenstadt,
October 6th, 1802
HOW AMAZING WAS THIS MAN?!
When I was a kid Disney had a program about Beethoven and, though I knew nothing about him, was very moved by it. I later found out that the music was conducted by Karl Boehm who is one of my very favorite conductors of Beethoven. I have five or six complete sets of the symphonies (one can never have too many) including his. Von Karajan, Toscanini, Walter, Bernstein, Boehm, now if I can just find an inexpensive one by Monteux.
I confess to being ignorant regarding the lives of the composers, and found this site Mad About Beethoven while looking for the Hammerklavier Sonata. I still haven't found the Sonata -- anyone know where the music can be found on the web? I'd like to see the sheet music (just to convince myself that I really don't need to throw out the sofa and move in a piano).
And that pathetic note was written DECADES before his death before the degeneration was even at its worst. What a tragedy. Have you read Thayer?
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