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Terri Schiavo Autopsy: Manner of Death 'Undetermined'
CNSNews.com ^ | June 15, 2005 | Jeff Johnson

Posted on 06/15/2005 12:27:19 PM PDT by veronica

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To: Anita1

So they were in a dentist's office at the same time? Good grief.

So then he hatched a plot to somehow deprive her brain of oxygen for some minutes, leaving her in a PVS for 15 years, and finally prevailed through the courts, just so that he could now marry her?

Delusional.


81 posted on 06/15/2005 1:57:33 PM PDT by self_evident (#47 and #60)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
Judge should have used *judgement* and erred on the caution and let the parents care for her.

Judges used their *judgement* instead of the law, in 1973. And look what that got us.
82 posted on 06/15/2005 1:59:58 PM PDT by self_evident (#47 and #60)
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To: mountaineer

Did she ever have a modern medical exam? What year?

Thank you. Nice try though!


83 posted on 06/15/2005 2:00:13 PM PDT by spycatcher
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To: veronica; 8mmMauser; floriduh voter; tutstar; Future Useless Eater; BykrBayb; Saundra Duffy; All
"A normal brain weight for somebody who is approximately 41 years of age ought to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,200 to 1,300 grams," Nelson explained. "Her brain is 615 grams and is largely reduced to what is termed granular atrophy ... associated with the loss of blood flow that happened many years prior.

I wish I knew a pathologist who could point to the effect of starvation and dehydration regarding brain weight. An independant pathologist who has no axe to grind, mind you. The other thread apparently is locked, and with good reason. Let's try and ignore the trolls.

84 posted on 06/15/2005 2:01:10 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Free Mexico!)
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To: sinkspur

Leaving Michael Jackson aside for the moment, the problem with Pinellas County is that from my readings (which were pretty extensive when the whole Schiavo affair hit 2-3 months ago), it's a pretty corrupt place in general. Judge Greer apparently is a big real estate crook, the Sheriff's office seems extremely corrupt, the nursing home situation is corrupt - the whole county stinks. I wouldn't have any confidence in anything that came out of Pinellas County even ASIDE from the Schiavo case.

The ME's office has been corrupt in the past. My point with this is that many people might simply accept any findings BECAUSE an ME says so - well the preceding ME had to resign because of changing her findings under pressure. It's actually very relevant because if it happened once, obviously it can happen again. The only way to forestall even the appearance of impropriety was to try to include other parties in the autopsy, particularly those of the opposition side. It might not have resolved anything, but then again - neither did this.


85 posted on 06/15/2005 2:02:35 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: mountaineer
She was examined many, many times by medical doctors while alive

The list of doctors that actually examined her is rather short. There were a few who were allowed to observe her but not truly examine.

There were 3 doctors for Schiavo, Bambadikis was one. Ronald Cranford and I can't remember the 3rd.

For the Schindlers was Maxwell and Hammesfahr.

For the State of Florida, just before her dehydration, was Dr Cheshire but he was only allowed to look, not touch her. On page 6, he calls it a 90 minute visit.

This list doesn't include the emergency room doctors etc.

86 posted on 06/15/2005 2:05:36 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel
You badmouth them all you want, but clearly Terri's parents and real family wanted to take care of her. And there's nothing wrong w/that.

It certainly would have been interesting if Terri's parents had taken custody and then she choked to death because they were trying to feed her. They did insist she could swallow, so it is quite possible that might have happened.

87 posted on 06/15/2005 2:05:47 PM PDT by bukkdems ("My aunt was very frugal" - Benon Savon)
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To: TheSpottedOwl

"I wish I knew a pathologist who could point to the effect of starvation and dehydration regarding brain weight. An independant pathologist who has no axe to grind, mind you."

With all due respect. The issue is not her brain's weight, per se, the issue is it's function or lack thereof.

Maybe it did weigh less due to dehydration, but I doubt HALF of what it did prior. It was not in a freeze dryer.


88 posted on 06/15/2005 2:06:15 PM PDT by Bones75
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To: mountaineer

"247 images according to the autopsy report.
I stand corrected."

More...pg 28 of the autopsy... 72 external photographs, 116 internal photographs, "A radiologic survey of her entire body...using a fluoroscopic c-arm (x-ray) with 58 pre-autopsy images captured."

I need to go back and look again, but it appears the nortorious "bone doc" made an assumption, one that turned out to be false and he relied on somebody elses "guess" and words rather than actual proof when he referred to the bone trauma. ;-)


89 posted on 06/15/2005 2:06:39 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: the OlLine Rebel
"What the heck was Terri doing if not eying the balloon as it crossed in front of her?"

Random auto response of the brain stem. The "seeming to see" the balloon was coincidental and not associated with a conscious action on her part and some have posited that the balloon was manipulated to follow her eyes not the other way around.
90 posted on 06/15/2005 2:10:38 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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Comment #91 Removed by Moderator

To: blueblazes

This autopsy resolved much, except in those with a conspiratorial mindset.


92 posted on 06/15/2005 2:10:55 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: jess35
Her wishes were deemed more important than those of her parents.

Can't have that; it conflicts with the Culture of LifeTM. (rolls eyes)

93 posted on 06/15/2005 2:13:14 PM PDT by Kretek (WPPFF)
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Comment #94 Removed by Moderator

To: TheSpottedOwl

Two weeks without fluids will result in only the loss of a few grams of brain weight. No one loses half their brain mass in 2 weeks because of dehydration.


95 posted on 06/15/2005 2:17:43 PM PDT by Greenback_dollar
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To: Sioux-san

Actually it appears that the bone scan doc was confused or wreckless. Pg 28 of the autopsy report addresses this issue in some detail.

In short, the doc when with the "trauma" words used by someone else and derived from the request form not the the actual findings of the doc. Without slamming him, the coroner indicates the doc made observations without knowledge of the patient...implying he had an incomplete picture. She did indeed have the HO bone disease as suspected by her doctors and which gave rise to the bone scan.

Note too that they did a complete x-ray/bone-scan of the entire body before commencing the autopsy.



96 posted on 06/15/2005 2:18:52 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: sinkspur

That's simply not true, sinkspur, that's just your own bias talking. If it really had accomplished anything it would be convincing to people who sided with Terri's parents. At least some of what he's saying might have some weight if there were another independent doctor, or someone who had sided with the Schindlers, to back it up. As it is, it's simply another report from another Pinellas County official, it is an absolutely meaningless document. No one's mind has been changed, nothing has been resolved.


97 posted on 06/15/2005 2:21:02 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: blueblazes; sinkspur
" I have no reason to believe this ME. He might be wrong on this case, he might be under pressure, maybe he has a particular bias - I don't know. "

But your reason for disbelieving him is based on the actions of another person ?

"What matters is that the precedent for corruption and incompetence exists in Pinellas County right there in the ME's office ..."

There is a precedent for incompetence in posting right here on FR, but I don't hold that against YOU.
98 posted on 06/15/2005 2:22:55 PM PDT by RS (Just because they are out to get him, it doesn't mean he's not guilty.)
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To: hondo
"She died of marked dehydration. She did not starve to death," Thogmartin said. As measured by the balance of salt and water in her body fluids, the dehydration was the most severe he had ever seen. This attested to Schiavo's robust underlying health, and in particular the strength of her heart, the pathologist said.

Dr. Gambone, Terri's former doctors who resigned in 2003, said she had an obvious will to live. I suppose that wouldn't show up in the autopsy either.

99 posted on 06/15/2005 2:26:15 PM PDT by bjs1779 ("I don’t want anyone trying to feed that GIRL" Greer thundered from the bench in 2001)
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To: hondo
THE DEHYDRATION WAS THE MOST SEVERE HE HAD EVER SEEN. MAY THOSE WHO WANTED TO SEE TERRI SCHIAVO DEAD GET ON THEIR KNEES AND THANK GOD FOR THE GIFT OF LIFE.

Didn't George Felos come from Terri's room when she was dying and tell the public how peaceful she was? Well, if the dehydration was the worst the doctor had ever seen; that tells me George Felos lied to the public. What else has he lied about?

I was impressed with the straight forwardness of Dr. Thogmartin, and I believe I understood him to say they were open to any new evidence or something akin to that. I thought he left the door open for more investigation. Ironically, I was listening to the news on the radio, and heard one of the MSM reporters say 'that the medical examiner found the husband could not have caused her condition,' I didn't hear the doctor say that....did I miss it or did they make it up?

100 posted on 06/15/2005 2:26:28 PM PDT by PeskyOne
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