Britain faces big chill as ocean current slows

The Sunday Times ^

[Rockingham]

True. Yet in five years or so, the trends in the North Atlantic and their significance will be much clearer due to the strength of the current data and of the historical record; but the global warming controversy will still be a confusing, inconclusive gabfest based all too much on models and on the hype and fear that underpin ecopolitics.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

I've heard that water vapor can effect temperatures way more than CO₂ content. (And I don't doubt that CO₂ is negligible.)

Personally, I think that the enviralists latched onto carbon dioxide as a "cause" of global warming because the planet Venus, which has an extremely hot surface, has an atmosphere of CO₂ and sulphur dioxides and they just couldn't help drawing parallels, no matter how full of crap they are.

[velyrorenry]

all that be adjusted for though. If we can figure out how much a star tens of millions lights-years away weighs, I think we can figure that much out.

[Rockingham]

On balance, I think that the better choice is probably to keep cutting back on particulates and other pollutants. There are valid public health and environmental reasons for doing so, and at this point the biggest economic hit will fall on the horrific smokestacks and air pollution of Russia and Asia.

Im addition to the prospect of cutting CO2 production through cheap, high efficency solar cells becoming possible through nanotechnology, I suspect that the US has some unrevealed global warming options based on secret climate modification research.

The recent drop in atmospheric particulates may be less important to climate change than an apparent natural lessening in cosmic rays and their consequent generation of ions and subatomic particles. Remarkably, these seem to have a crucial role in producing clouds and lightning.

[Exit148]

Global warming brings global cooling which will probably bring global warming which in turn will be the forbearer of more global cooling -----and all caused by my car?

[SouthTexas]

Good info on prehistoric CO2, thanks.

[ancient_geezer]

I've heard that water vapor can effect temperatures way more than CO₂ content. (And I don't doubt that CO₂ is negligible.)

Molecule for molecule, water vapor is 80 times more powerful as a thermal agent.

The net effect of major contributers to the greenhouse effect adjusted for atmospheric concentration and thermal characteristics are in the following table

Water Vapor Rules the Greenhouse System
Mankind's impact is only 0.28% of Total Greenhouse effect
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

  Anthropogenic (man-made) Contribution to the "Greenhouse
Effect," expressed as % of Total (water vapor INCLUDED)

Based on concentrations (ppb) adjusted for heat retention characteristics	% of All Greenhouse Gases	% Natural	% Man-made
Water vapor	95.000%	94.999%	0.001%
Carbon Dioxide (CO2)	3.618%	3.502%	0.117%
Methane (CH4)	0.360%	0.294%	0.066%
Nitrous Oxide (N2O)	0.950%	0.903%	0.047%
Misc. gases ( CFC's, etc.)	0.072%	0.025%	0.047%
Total	100.00%	99.72	0.28%

 

And that does not take into account water's capacity to reflect solar radiation away from Earth in the form of Couds and ice.

[Rose of Sharn]

iI swear just a few months ago I read an article saying how much hotter Britain was getting and at the end of the century all the native plants would have died out and they'd be growing banananas. I wish these scientists would make up their minds./i

Last year, Britain experienced an unusually hot summer! Got to the 100s, tarmac melted and people died all over from heat stroke.

[sport]

How can this happen with global warming?

[SunkenCiv]

;') I kinda like it -- St Elmo's Fire for the hippie generation.

[SunkenCiv]

My pleasure.

The Little Ice Age: How Climate Made History 1300-1850 by Brian M. Fagan Paperback	Floods, Famines, and Emperors: El Nino and the Fate of Civilizations by Brian M. Fagan	The Long Summer: How Climate Changed Civilization by Brian M. Fagan

[John O]

Actually most pickups without a camper shell get lower mileage than the SUV version with the same engine and transmission.

The tailgate is the culprit. Nothing like a 4-5' wide and 2' high wind blocker going down the road to whack your mileage.

I seem to remember a study posted here a while back that shows that the tailgate does not serve as a wind blocker. In fact the people who are removing their tailgates (or going to the open net type thingies end up getting slightly lower MPG

The closed tailgate forms a pocket of mostly stagnant air in the bed of the truck. There is little exchange between this pocket and the general airstream flowing over the truck. This causes a decreae in air resistance as the truck does not have to pull the amount of air that it normally would.

A semi pulls behind it a large volume of air as the transition from the large square trailer creates a huge drag zone immediately behind it. On a pickup this drag zone is greater with the tailgate open than with it closed.

Referring to the nascar truck picture earlier on the thread, the closed deck over the bed is intended to decreas drag. And it does. However at normal highway speeds the air exchange between the bed and the airstream is not high enough to need a closed bed.

As an experiment you can do at home place a crumpled up ball of paper (or if you live in the country an empty beer can) in the bed and go for a drive. for most of the ride the ball/can will move around some but it won't leave the bed.

I wish I could remember when the study was posted. I'll try to find it.

[Grampa Dave]

Please post it and ping me.

My sons had pickups without camper shells and when they added shells, their mileage increased significantly.

[John O]

Here's a couple links.

From Car Talk

A study from University of Michigan

Both showing decreased MPG due to increased drag from leaving the tailgate down or removing it.

[John O]

My sons had pickups without camper shells and when they added shells, their mileage increased significantly.

The michagan study touches on this a little. Apparently a lot of the mileage decrease with an open tailgate is due to airstream impact with the bed of the truck. With a shell there is no airstream/bed interaction.

[FatherofFive]

"Remember the story of Moses and the burning Bush"

Too funny. I am going to steal that one!

[SunkenCiv]

Greenland Ice Cap Is Melting, Raising Sea Level
Source: The Associated Press
Published: Jul 20, 2000 - 04:05 PM Author: By Paul Recer
Posted on 07/20/2000 14:37:50 PDT by Ms. AntiFeminazi
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3977712e1941.htm