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Lead and diamonds: the Richmond jewelry store shootout [Blast from the Past]
American Handgunner Mag (The Ayoob Files) ^ | May-June 2003 | Massad Ayoob

Posted on 04/29/2005 10:08:42 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo

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To: G.Mason
By learning to unholster, (un-pocket?) pointing (not aiming) and shooting in one complete action, you will have what it takes to survive. JMHO

All depends on the circumstances. The guy who fired the intial four rounds from the .44 could have done a better job of aiming. Aiming was appropriate in this sort of a firefight, most of the time, although it's not generally so in many self defense situations.

21 posted on 04/29/2005 12:29:05 PM PDT by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: El Gato
Geeze ... I didn't say anything about "in all circumstances you don't aim". I said learn (PRACTICE) to pull it out, point it and hit the target, in one complete action.


If you have the time to deliberately aim down the barrel, placing the front sight in the direct center of the rear sight, and even horizontally, then slowly squeeze one off between the perps eyeballs, then by all means, go for it. I'm certain the bad guy will pose, standing perfectly motionless, while you line him up. ;)

22 posted on 04/29/2005 12:45:38 PM PDT by G.Mason ( Because Free Republic obviously needed another opinionated big mouth ... Proud NRA member)
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To: G.Mason
you may as well pay the piper and get ten 1911 .45's and two clips.

I think the idea was since the guns would be available to multiple employees with various levels of gun proficiency, simple was better. Hard to screw up a point-and-shoot wheel gun.

23 posted on 04/29/2005 12:49:42 PM PDT by tnlibertarian
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To: El Gato
BTW ... "The guy who fired the intial four rounds from the .44 could have done a better job of aiming."


Unless you are in the movies, or shoot 50 rds. with a .44 mag every other day, after your first shot you won't hit crapolla. Even if you don't get the "flinches" because you're in a fire fight, by the time you get the gun back down and into the sight pattern, if you haven't gotten behind something to protect you, you're prolly punctured. ;)

24 posted on 04/29/2005 12:54:45 PM PDT by G.Mason ( Because Free Republic obviously needed another opinionated big mouth ... Proud NRA member)
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To: tnlibertarian
Works for me.


You reckon the employees had no training with the Rossi's? And if they did, do you think it's difficult to learn the mechanics of a 1911 .45?

25 posted on 04/29/2005 12:58:30 PM PDT by G.Mason ( Because Free Republic obviously needed another opinionated big mouth ... Proud NRA member)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Great storie! Thanks for the post!


26 posted on 04/29/2005 1:13:25 PM PDT by BBell
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To: G.Mason
If you have the time to deliberately aim down the barrel, placing the front sight in the direct center of the rear sight, and even horizontally, then slowly squeeze one off between the perps eyeballs, then by all means, go for it. I'm certain the bad guy will pose, standing perfectly motionless, while you line him up

It takes a lot longer to even say that than it takes to do it. The guy with the .44 was firing from some distance, and partially from behind cover and concealment. Probably had a rest available as well, but it's hard to tell that from the description. Besides, I'd never aim for anything other than center of mass, or whatever was showing. (The bad guy was partially behind concealment as well.) In this case there was obviously a lot of missing going on. Doesn't matter how quickly you shoot, if you miss, other than its value in keeping the other guys head down and forcing him to rush his shots. Of course an aimed shot that merely hits near his position behind cover and or concealment does that as well. With the .44 you could probably shoot through many types of concealment, if you still had a good notion of where the bad guy was behind it.

27 posted on 04/29/2005 1:18:58 PM PDT by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: tnlibertarian

Learning to use a semi-auto isn't that complicated. It's not like trying to learn to speak Basque.

It's nice that the owner put all those guns there for the employees to use if they needed them. A lot of corporations that run convenience stores forbid the store employees from having guns to protect themselves. Of course, the lamestream media will never criticize those corporations. They'll be too busy whining about Halliburton.


28 posted on 04/29/2005 1:19:52 PM PDT by JillValentine (Hasan Akbar was sentenced to death. Today is a good day.)
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To: G.Mason
Even if you don't get the "flinches" because you're in a fire fight, by the time you get the gun back down and into the sight pattern, if you haven't gotten behind something to protect you, you're prolly punctured.

Agreed, but as I read it, this guy was above the target, shooting down, with a steel structure under him and covering his lower extremeties, at the least. He just needed to drop down to be behind cover from the point of view of the bad guy.

29 posted on 04/29/2005 1:23:54 PM PDT by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: JillValentine; G.Mason
Learning to use a semi-auto isn't that complicated.

While I doubt she would have any trouble in a heated situation, my wife has a difficult time with the slides of some guns.

In the heat of the moment, one extra step might be enough to change the situation from a pleasant one to a not so pleasant one.

30 posted on 04/29/2005 1:28:38 PM PDT by tnlibertarian
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To: G.Mason
I couldn't figure out the Rossi's myself. If you are going so far as to get ten snub nosed five shots, you may as well pay the piper and get ten 1911 .45's and two clips

The article stated the owner wanted a simple point and click weapon that any of his people could get into play quickly. I agree with his thinking.

31 posted on 04/29/2005 1:57:29 PM PDT by MileHi
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To: MileHi
The article stated the owner wanted a simple point and click weapon that any of his people could get into play quickly. I agree with his thinking.

As do I. But .357 probably would be better. At least load the .38s with +P ammo, with something like Cor-Bon, Grazers, or other high expansion low penetration bullets.... well most of the cylinder should be loaded that way. I might want a few FMJs or JHPs as well, in case the perps are wearing the lighter forms of bullet resistant vests.

32 posted on 04/29/2005 2:01:46 PM PDT by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Bump for later read.


33 posted on 04/29/2005 2:09:49 PM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
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To: snowsislander

At least we have a pro-gun governor now. We've gotten rid of the ogam for permit holders and expect to get rid of it for everyone soon.


34 posted on 04/29/2005 2:38:07 PM PDT by songbird51 (Second Amendment Sisters ping)
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To: G.Mason

I agree with what you said except for the part about not aiming and just pointing.
With enough practice, the front sight will be there as quickly as pointing. Without the practice, the new shooter has to use the sights in order to hit so you might as well tell them to use them.
If someone is so close, it's impossible to miss, then the bad guy can't miss either. That's when you use the sights to shoot for the head.


35 posted on 04/29/2005 3:52:32 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Hey Shooter, havent seen you around much lately. Have you been to the new ksconcealedcarry.com forum yet? We could use some good word of mouth to get the word (of mouth) out.
Get the membership built up.


36 posted on 04/29/2005 4:51:17 PM PDT by heckler (wiskey for my men, beer for my horses, rifles for sister sarah)
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To: heckler

Still here and posting from the banglist. Finally started shooting again since the kid is back from Iraq. His entire unit made it with no deaths. Yay!
His bride has a new Kimber so we're in a teaching mode. I'm shooting lousy from lack of practice. I need more trigger time.
Haven't logged in the new place. I lurk once in awhile. I'm fed up with the DUer's on thehighroad.


37 posted on 04/29/2005 6:33:26 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Whew...you just knew when you read the guns were laid out ten feet apart, this story was going to be a wild one.


38 posted on 04/30/2005 10:14:01 AM PDT by Ladysmith ((NRA) Wisconsin Hunter Shootings: If you want on/off the WI Hunters ping list, please let me know.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
Great post. Without a doubt, this has to be the best self defense article that I've ever read. The crooks bought off a little too much this time and it cost them their lives. If the owner had not been armed to the teeth, they could have all been murdered. My carry gun is a 38 Det. Spc. After reading this, I know I'm going to get a 40 or a 45. IF I ever have to shoot anyone, I want them to stay down.
39 posted on 05/01/2005 10:43:25 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge ..)
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To: Mr. Mojo

I read this allowed to my family! Great story!


40 posted on 05/02/2005 7:54:54 PM PDT by Vor Lady (I ain't in Heaven...I ain't in Hell...I must be in Nebraska.)
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