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I agree with Congressman Boehlert.

What I find odd is that most of us at FR believe in our founding principles, especially "States' Rights". This case was argued repeatedly over many years in Florida.

What in the world is Congress doing if it is not stripping more states' rights away, something most members here at Free Republic normally get very angry about?

SCOTUS recently used European law as a basis to strike down the death penalty for jueveniles. That took a piece out of our sovereignty.

Then SCOTUS actually upheld states' rights by rejecting a a request to hear the Schiavo case, but Tom DeLay and other Republicans bypassed SCOTUS by passing a new law.

It is clear that all three branches of government are doign their part to strike down the U.S. Constitution and strip rights away from the states.

Yes, the Terri Schiavo case is sad, but I do not see how supporting more destruction of states' rights is a good thing for those of us who are conservatives and believe in limited government and states' rights.

I would like to ask those of you (of which there are many) to explain how you justify supporting putting the feeding tube back in Terri, but at the same time you believe in states' rights (normally, that is--not in this case). If you believe that the Florida litigation was complete and thorough, and took ALL facts into account, then your comments would be interesting. However, if you honestly believe Terri said "I want to live" and that she is not brain dead, then there is no need to respond since that explains your position on face value.

What would be interesting is to hear from those of you who believe the Florida litigation was complete and covered all the facts, and that Terri has no cognitive ability (as the medical professionals have testified), yet you still believe that Congress is right to bypass SCOTUS and it is right to strip states' rights away. These are the people I would like to hear from.

It is hard to argue with Congressman Boehlert--Congress has no business getting involved, unless you do not believe in the separation of powers and states' rights.

I look forward to some good comments, and being that this is an emotionally charged issue, I hope that we all respect each othes opinion.

Thank you.

1 posted on 03/21/2005 11:31:14 AM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
This case was argued repeatedly over many years in Florida.

True, but there are two extremely peculiar decisions — findings of fact — about the case that really do cry out for someone else to take a look.

The first concerns Terri's wishes in the event she were to become incapacitated. She left no written instructions. We are therefore left with a dispute within her family concerning what she would have wanted. The husband says this, the parents say that, off to court we go.

It the job of judges to decide these things, and this judge decided — based on the word of the husband — that it is a "fact" that Terri would have preferred death in this circumstance.

So far as I know, once a judge has determined this to be a "fact," the appellate courts do not ever look at it again. So all appeals proceed on the basis that it is a "fact" that Terri Schiavo would prefer death here.

But is it a fact that withstands any scrutiny? The husband has a million dollars awarded in a malpractice suit, ostensibly to provide for medical treatment for his wife; but it's all his to do with as he pleases were she to die. And there might be life insurance as well; we don't know. But we do know that the husband has a powerful financial interest in seeing his wife dead. And without any written will, it's a "he said/they said" between the husband and the parents as to her wishes. So the decision that it is a "fact" that Terri would prefer death, based on the husband's testimony, contradicted by the parents, strikes many people as extremely controversial. At best it is arbitrary... making a decision for the sake of making a decision. Granted that is what we pay judges to do. But we shouldn't lose sight of how weird this decision is.

The second "fact" concerns the likelihood that Mrs. Schiavo's condition might improve. The press has described her as everything from "brain dead" to "in a coma." There are doctors who say she in a "persistent vegetative state" and there are doctors who say they've seen worse cases that were rehabilitated. There is testimony from nurses — apparently ignored by the judge — that she says things like "help me." For sure, her eyes are open, she moves around, she smiles, and she makes noises. We've seen the videos. Once again, the judge "decides" and so it becomes a "finding of fact" that she is in a "persistent vegetative state."

Given the two "facts," the judge's decision to pull the feeding tube makes perfect sense from a legal standpoint.

The problem is with the "findings of fact." In both cases, the testimony is contradictory. The judge, quite arbitrarily, came down on the side that leads to her death.

A lot of people are uncomfortable with that. This judge is not qualified to decide for himself whether Mrs. Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state." He heard testimony that she is, and he heard testimony that she isn't. In doubt, this judge erred on the side of death. He did the same thing in deciding whether to believe the husband or the parents concerning Terri's wishes. Both times, he came down on the side that leads to an ineluctable legal decision that she should die. Yet everyone can see that he was basically making two arbitrary decisions concerning whom to believe.

Judges do that every day. It's their job. But when two rather peculiar arbitrary decisions lead to starving someone to death, maybe it's time to call in the replay official.

It is common for criminals sentenced to death by state courts to get a federal review of their cases. When the government is going to kill someone, you would like to make sure it's not making a mistake. Surely this woman deserves a review that a convicted criminal could get.


116 posted on 03/21/2005 12:35:06 PM PST by Nick Danger (You can stick a fork in the Mullahs... they're done)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

What I see here is not a matter of states rights...it is a matter of the fundamental right to life that our constitution affords each and every person who is a citizen here..When we lose track of this, we can easily get into the argument over whether we have impinged on the states rights....But the bottom line in all of this is that Terry Schiavo has been in the court system for many years without an advocate on her side....the judges have somehow forgotten that Terry is a live human being and has rights..she is not a blob of inert flesh lying in a bed wasting away. She is a United States citizen and as such must have counsel when in the court system. Even the most gruesome vile criminals among us have that right.

Terry Schiavo has had no representation to advocate her rights..it has always been the husband vs the parents as far as I see.

I am not saying states rights are wrong...but they must never supercede the right of an individual to be afforded the basic necessities of life. This judge and the husband have lost sight of that. Putting things in the court records as fact, when there is no proof is an abomination. Terry left no written documant to say what her wishes were...we only have her husbands dubious testimony on that..Had Terry been given an advocate at the onset..I don't think we would be where we are now with all this.


128 posted on 03/21/2005 12:41:31 PM PST by leenie312
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

"What would be interesting is to hear from those of you who believe the Florida litigation was complete and covered all the facts, and that Terri has no cognitive ability (as the medical professionals have testified), yet you still believe that Congress is right to bypass SCOTUS and it is right to strip states' rights away. These are the people I would like to hear from."

Might as well kill the thread. Who believes that Terri has no cognitive ability? Who believes that the facts as they've been reported in this case were handled correctly and justly?


129 posted on 03/21/2005 12:43:46 PM PST by WriteOn
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
I'm sure if the appeal does not overturn Florida's decision the argument will proceed and adjust accordingly. Their will be no acceptable justification or resolution to the matter other than RTL getting its way, which we all know will set the stage for future cases. Lawyers win again...
143 posted on 03/21/2005 12:58:15 PM PST by NY-YANK
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

See #146.


148 posted on 03/21/2005 1:02:04 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

ditto


158 posted on 03/21/2005 1:25:02 PM PST by scheuber
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
What in the world is Congress doing if it is not stripping more states' rights away, something most members here at Free Republic normally get very angry about?

Now freepers are applauding the Feds for trampling on states right.

Apparently if YOUR party is using the Constitution as TP, its OK!

188 posted on 03/21/2005 5:33:23 PM PST by Walkin Man
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