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To: 4ConservativeJustices
BS. The states were legitimate, independent entitites, recognized by Great Britain and the world.

LOL! The only BS is that comment. The British NEVER recognized the Confederacy. NO country did.

They joined and left two governments independently and unilaterally. Justice Grier did not rule their secession illegal as I documented, and that decision also notes that numerous nations recognized the independence of the Confederate states when 'the Queen of England issued her proclamation of neutrality, "recognizing hostilities as existing between the Government of the United States of America and certain States styling themselves the Confederate States of America."

Thus, contradicting your own "BS" in the same post.

If it was, as you claim, a civil war, you must PROVE that the confederacy did NOT have a government which conducted the war.

No...you must prove that Government was legitimate. States have governments as well. So do counties. If the County of New York tried to secede that would find it very difficult to do this. If Georgia has right to leave the United States, what is stopping every county and city from leaving Georgia?

Hint: I'll make this VERY easy. Justice Robert C. Grier, speaking for the court, refers to the 'organization of a government by the seceding States'. 539

Hint, organizing of a government means nothing. The Irish Republican Army had a provisional government too.

I'll give you a second hint - The opinions of Justices are constantly overturned by other justices. It is your OPINIO (along with many who think like you) that the south had the right to secede. It is my opinion (along with many who think like me) that they did not. Both side have itlelectual arguments, both sides quote law, lawyers, judges. In the end, the argument was closed at Appomattox. You can argue the point all day, but it does not change the fact that the South was crushed in its attempt to secede and the United States of America was preserved (Glory Hallelujah!). God's will be done.

541 posted on 01/24/2005 8:35:26 AM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: NJ Neocon; 4ConservativeJustices
[NJ Neocon] Hint, organizing of a government means nothing. The Irish Republican Army had a provisional government too.

I recall that Ireland won independence from Britain, formed the Irish Free State, later the Republic of Ireland (Eire) and that Eamonn de Valera (IRA) was the President back when.

542 posted on 01/24/2005 9:15:22 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: NJ Neocon
I'll give you a second hint - The opinions of Justices are constantly overturned by other justices.

Can you point to one where the court held that the Confederacy did not form a government? But I do agree, the courts are not infallible. The court, in a near unanimous opinion authored by a Yankee justice, held that segregation was legal. It did so based on an 1848 (IIRC) Massachusett law. The lone dissenter was Southern.

The courts have gave us legalized abortion, somehow discovering a right which eluded millions for almost 200 years. Today's court ruled 6-2 that a search is not a search when performed by a dog, and even the dissenters added clauses for bomb-sniffing dogs. I despise the thought of a living, evolving Constitution. If any change is necessary, amend it. In the past few days we have this same court refuse to hear a Florida case involving the Guarantee clause - a republican form of government is NOT one where the judiciary ignores the law.

Furthermore, the courts, state and federal, are not the ultimate arbiters of such decisions, they are penultimate. The federal courts are creatures of the people, and at all times amenable by them. Our founding fathers fought for the freedom to govern themselves, to free themselves from the clutches of tyrannical despots.

'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety' - Benjamin Franklin

'If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.' - Samuel Adams

555 posted on 01/24/2005 12:51:52 PM PST by 4CJ (Laissez les bon FReeps rouler - Quo Gladius de Veritas - Deo vindice!)
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