Prior post on another thread:
Religion Today (Southern Baptists Unhappy With public Schools)
Posted by Kevin OMalley to borntobeagle
On News/Activism 12/16/2004 12:29:50 AM PST · 100 of 100
"Mr. OMalley wins the prize!
I have to say that this is the best statement I have read over the entire course of this discussion. It has become so true in life now that HS diplomas mean nothing. "
Thanks for the kudos.
Here's a bit more follow up, a recycled post from a different article:
Allowing gifted students to skip high school in Calfornia
Posted by Kevin OMalley to Lizavetta
On News/Activism 10/24/2003 3:04:53 PM PDT · 24 of 24
I took the CHSPE when I was 16, and moved on with my life. I refer to people who remain in high school as 5 percenters, which is to say that staying in high school only makes sense for those 5% of students who either can't pass the CHSPE (California's version of the high school proficiency exam), are trying for an athletic scholarship, are the most popular guys with the prettiest cheerleaders on their arm, or just want to goof off. The rest of the people in high school should just take the test and go to community college, start getting college credits out of the way.
It's particularly bizarre that the kids today are going to be REQUIRED to take a test when they graduate; that just means that you're wasting your time from the moment you CAN pass that test. A high school diploma means NOTHING in today's economy -- a 4 year college degree is a true necessity and the sooner you get it, the better off you are.
I have often heard that the reason to stay in high school is "so you can go to the senior prom". This is just an incredible joke -- what a waste of time. I can't believe kids waste 4 years of their lives for a chance at one night of fun, or because they're "building up cherished memories". That's a crock for many, if not most high school kids today, and they need to get the heck out of this socially repressive environment... leave it to the 5 percenters to harrass each other. For those parents who are trying to convince your kids that they're having fun when the kids know they aren't, you'll end up getting the worst end of the teens' treatment when the chickens come home to roost with their surly remarks, attitude problems, and drug use.
An 18 year old with an AA degree has a MUCH better chance of getting into the college of his or her choice than an 18 year old clueless high school grad with a 3.0 grade average. This will have the effect of increasing competition in the upper tier, which will trickle down to the lower/middle capability students. Hopefully we'll see kids in community college saying things such as, "I got out in 1 year" or "I skipped high school entirely". A bright kid with an Bachelor's degree at 19 or 20 years old will finally have an education on par with what goes on in Japan & other industrialized nations.
AB2607 is the best policy proposal for secondary school in California since the introduction of the CHSPE.
We use this program.
http://www.spcollege.edu/ac/dc/
Important thing with this program is to NOT seek a GED or you will not be allowed in the program.
My son started in 10th grade, he'll be starting his 2nd term of his 2nd year next week, he's 16 and by the end of the term will have his 60 credits needed for an AA.
Good news, he'll still be eligible for the program next year so we'll continue to use the program for one more year but just for science and math courses that will be transferable to another state university.
I've got no problem with a smart kid wishing to skip right through and move on to bigger and better things. I don't see why anyone would. Of course my opinion is just common sense, which liberals lack.
In a perfect world, this would be ideal. When I was in high school, I searched in vain for a way to skip it by taking some sort of test. I was truly educated at home, even when I was enrolled in school.
However, most colleges still attach a lot of weight to having the high school diploma, even though ultimately it means nothing.
When I was a Sophomore in HS, I had dropped out and ended up in alternative school. I begged my principal to let me take the GED so I could go on to college. He refused. I went to my regular high school principal and he refused, also...but let me do a program called "Running Start" where I could take all my classes at the community college and get credit for both. I ended up getting my HS diploma and Associate Degree the same month. It was the best move I ever made. High school was such a waste of time. I will be offering that option to my children, too.
Employers and colleges prefer high school diplomas to GEDs.
It's ironic that states are upping the school leaving age to 18 in many states. Kids have had enough of high school. They really want out.
There was a story in educationnews.org today about a high school in Dallas that wouldn't let kids go to the bathroom during class unless they were accompanied by a POLICE OFFICER or the school nurse. Who the hell needs that crap whether you're six years old or 16 years old?
Going to high school is such an unattractive option today what with inane zero tolerance rules, cameras all over the place, pee tests, cops with taser guns patrolling the halls, PC indoctrination and all the rest of it. Who wants to go to a school where you're considered a potential criminal who has to be watched and monitored every second of the day? Who wants to go to a school where you slip up once, and your academic career is finished?
This is a wake up call to the public schools. There are so many more options out there and savvy kids know it.
From Teen Scene Magazine:
http://www.teenscenemag.com/sections/reallife/reality/intellect.php
Reality - Lauren Betancourt: Not Your Average College Graduate
Lauren Betancourt is not your average college graduate. She is not able to vote, go to the bars or even officially be called an adult yet. That's because Lauren entered college at the age of 13 and graduated at 16 years old from The University of Hartford with a Bachelor of Science in Biology Degree.
Lauren went to high school orientation, but wasn't excited about attending. While on her way home, Lauren said to her mom, "Wouldn't it be cool if I could just skip high school?" Lauren and her mom looked into it. Lauren had to take 5 CLEP tests which are tests that students of any age can take to demonstrate college-level achievement through a program of exams in undergraduate college courses. She also had to meet with the board of professors from the college so they could ask her questions and see if she was mature enough to interact with the other students. Her hard work paid off and she was off to college.
While attending college Lauren said that she didn't really tell anyone her age, unless they asked. But most people just assumed she was your average 18 year old college student. She explains that most of the time, her age did not change her friendship with the other students. Lauren surrounded herself with people who liked her for her and those were her true friends.
College was exactly what Lauren expected. She went to college to have more opportunities to learn and have a lot more freedom. She got to learn what she wanted, when she wanted and made some lifelong friends. Lauren was entering a world of adults even though she was only 13 years old. Many people told her that she'd never get into college, let alone make it as a college student. But she proved them wrong and accomplished everything they said she wouldn't.
Now that Lauren has graduated college, there is much more in store for her. She would like to get her Masters Degree in the future. But right now, she is taking a break from academics to dance. Lauren has been dancing since she was three years old and now she has the time to pursue it. Lauren states, "Dance is my passion and I am a strong believer in doing what you're passionate about." Lauren wants to pursue a professional career in dance right now and when she is older, go to graduate school.
Besides dance, Lauren keeps busy with a numerous amount of things. She has her own web design business. She also tutors high school kids and just finished teaching a Biology Laboratory Section at the University. She also just started an education site that she hopes will help people research all types of education. For more information, please check out, www.extremeintellect.com.
Lauren's mom spent many hours in the car, either driving or waiting for Lauren during college, that she had to entertain herself somehow. She started taking down a lot of notes about what Lauren did in school and how she was feeling. Lauren and her mom decided to write a book and share their knowledge about her experiences in college. They found that people were asking the same questions over and over again so they put a book together answering them from both their points of view. Lauren hopes her book will inspire people everywhere to follow their dreams and never give up, no matter how unachievable they seem. Lauren says, "Everyone can do what I have done. I was never singled out as "gifted" by school officials. I was not chosen by anyone to skip ahead. I wanted to skip school and my mom was cool with it so we figured out how to do it. I hope my book will give a clearer picture of what accelerated kids are like." She also wants to inspire kids who have been told that they're not good at something. Just because someone else doesn't see your potential, doesn't mean you don't have it. The book will also help kids who may not want to skip high school, but may want to skip a year or two, or finish college early.
If Lauren could go back and do it again, she would skip high school again and go to college. Lauren says she has an extra 5 years now to concentrate on other things like dancing. Lauren also adds that her college experience has made her into exactly the person she wants to be, and she wouldn't change that for the world. Following her dreams has changed her life and she hopes that you follow yours as well.
- Kelly Kurowski, Associate Editor
Some more interesting reading on other forums:
http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54789.html
Gamingforce Interactive Forums > Gamingforce Network > The Quiet Place > ANGST! > No more High School
I'm home schooling, rather have him alive than shot dead in educated hood high school. Actually he's ahead and should graduate faster.
I would think a degree based on an exam, assuming it was appropriately difficult, would be better than a diploma at determining a students proficiency.
I have two masters degrees but also think a Masters or Doctorate based on appropriate exams would be better than the current degreees. Yes I know all about the orals, theses, dissertations etc.
I would far prefer a teacher who passed a difficult exam to get their certificate to one who completed an education degree program at a University.
The way we did it was have her get a good SAT score (1300), declare her as having skipped a couple of grades and being a HS senior, and enrolled her in a program at the local community college where smart highschoolers can do their senior year at the college, and pick up college credits that are transferrable to a regular 4-year college.
If your kid is a homeschooler wanting to go to college, and your local CC has a similar program, I would recommend it. It gives the kid a lot of credibility when applying to places if she already is doing college work at an accredited college and getting good grades
There's another thing to consider about pushing your kids into community college at age 16: they'll be dealing with older and more mature kids. They'll be dating older and mature kids. Food for thought. If your 16 year old daughter thinks she's facing pressure to have sex by high school boys....
Before you do the GED with the idea of going into the military, check with the particular branch. My son did the GED route (the State of Illinois would not allow him to take the test until after his age cohort had graduated high school, thanks to the teacher's union).
Air Force and Navy would not, at that time (2000), accept a GED, but the Army and Marines would. So he joined the Army, they sent him to language scool, and now he gets to run around with SF, which is pretty interesting (even when he's not in Iraq!).
For a later read ...
Kid genius just
can't get ahead
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/101278p-91697c.html
By JOE WILLIAMS
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Angela Lipsman, 15, a genius who skipped high school to go to college, can't get her degrees without a diploma.
Angela Lipsman is a really smart kid, but a really, really dumb rule is keeping the 15-year-old from getting a college degree.
Angela, who skipped high school and went straight to college last year, has earned her associate's degree and is on her way to a bachelor's - but she can't have the sheepskins because she never got a high school diploma.
Even worse, the gifted girl's proud dad is being investigated by child protective services for alleged educational neglect - for letting his daughter go to college.
"It's not fair," said Angela, who has a 3.84 grade point average and 71 credits from Borough of Manhattan Community College and Fashion Institute of Technology. "I'm still going to school and I'm still getting an education."
The hard lesson came from an Albany judge who ruled against Angela's age-discrimination suit challenging the state Education Department's edict that kids have to stay in school until age 16 and can't get general equivalency diplomas until they turn 17.
Angela's father, retired teacher Daniel Lipsman, figures she'll have her bachelor's degree wrapped up by the time she turns 17 and will then get three diplomas at once - including the GED.
"It's very demoralizing," said Lipsman, who vowed that he'll "go to prison before my daughter goes to a city high school."
Albany Supreme Court Justice Bernard Malone blamed Lipsman for steering his brainy daughter to college after she completed eighth grade at Public School 187 in Washington Heights.
"Angela was not legally free to skip high school," Malone wrote this week in ruling against Angela.
He noted that Angela could have been declared a home-schooled student and placed in a fast-track program, or she could have attended high school programs that allow students to earn college credits simultaneously.
Dad will appeal
Lipsman said he probably will appeal the decision. But he was still holding out hope the city Education Department would grant his daughter a diploma.
Yesterday, Schools Chancellor Joel Klein offered hope to Angela, who recently learned she has enough transfer credits for an associate's degree from Albany-based Excelsior College.
"We are evaluating the student's college credits to determine whether the credits may be applied toward a high school diploma," Klein said in a written statement.
Originally published on July 16, 2003
I found this on TxBec's home page here in Free Republic.
Allowing gifted students to skip high school in Calfornia
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/702562/posts
In addition, here is an interesting proposal from Michigan:
http://www.bridges4kids.org/articles/4-04/MIRS4-23-04.html#top
Smart Kid? Skip High School
MIRS, April 23, 2004
For more articles like this visit http://www.bridges4kids.org.
It's always been assumed that dropping out of high school is a bad thing, but a West Michigan lawmaker has a new twist on the drop out situation with the state picking up the tab.
Rep. Jack Hoogendyk (R-Portage) is finalizing legislation that would allow advanced students to end their high school career after their sophomore year and enter community college or a four-year university with the state paying for the first two yeas of that higher education.
"If you have a motivated son or daughter at home and they want to get moving with their lives and high school is not that important to them, they certainly will have that opportunity," he said.
Funding for this unique program would come by shifting K-12 funds that would go for the 11th and 12th grades and using it pay for kid's college tuition, books and fees. Hoogendyk said that will actually save money for the state because, in most cases, the foundation grant is higher than the tuition in a J.C. or four-year school.
Plus he argues the concept fits in with the Granholm administration's goal of training more students for jobs of the future.
"What will this do for Michigan? I believe it will get more kids in college quicker and will help the governor meet her goals of getting more of children through college and ready for the work force," he contends.
Hoogendyk is calling his bill the Michigan Accelerated College Education Act (MI-ACE) and is eligible to any 15-to 19-year-old who has completed two years of high school or earned high scores on the ACT or SAT.
HB 5791 has been referred to the House Higher Education Committee for review and consideration.
When I was in high school it was a traditional for Seniors to spend their last few weeks scrambling around looking for the few extra units they needed to fulfill their graduation requirements. It always seemed to come as a shock to them that they were short.
My parents, however, insisted that I take a full schedule every year and actually pass my classes. Thus I entered my senior year needing only one required, and one elective class. I could have finished this up in one semester. But when I suggested to my mother that I could graduate early I got a resounding, "NO!"
I took two full semesters of classes instead. I do understand why my mother wanted me to remain in high school. I was almost a year younger than my fellow classmates and was still only seventeen when I entered college.
I have to wonder if leaving high school early and going on to college wouldn't have been the better choice.