Vatican hit by new row over WW2 role

www.mg.co.za ^ | 29 December 2004 | SA

[Ginifer]

The Vatican secretly issued instructions to the Catholic church in France not to return Jewish children to their families after the second world war, it emerged on Tuesday.

The children were entrusted to the church's care to save them from the death camps. But if the parents survived the war and came forward to reclaim their sons or daughters, the children were only to be returned "provided [they] have not received baptism", the Vatican ordered.

The instructions, contained in a letter dated October 20 1946, were sent by the Holy Office, the Vatican department responsible for church discipline, to the future Pope John XXIII, Angelo Roncalli, who at that time was the Holy See's envoy in Paris. The letter was published yesterday by the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

The letter ends with the words: "Please note that this decision has been approved by the Holy Father." This may well have been a warning to the then Monsignor Roncalli, who, in his previous job as the pope's nuncio, or ambassador, in Istanbul, was suspected by some in the Vatican of an excessively pro-Jewish outlook.

The letter deals a new and crushing blow to the reputation of the wartime pope, Pius XII.

Research for a film released two years ago by the documentary maker Aviva Slesin concluded that fewer than than 10% of the 1.5 million Jewish children living in Europe in 1939 survived the conflict. In a desperate attempt to save their sons and daughters, many parents made arrangements with Christian couples or left them in orphanages.

The Vatican's letter indicates that Pope Pius wanted both to obstruct and minimise the return of those children who had been put in the church's care. "Children who have been baptised may not be entrusted to institutions that are not in a position to guarantee them a Christian upbringing," it said. The position with regard to unbaptised Jewish children was more complicated.

The Vatican's officials ruled that those who had lost their parents ought not to be entrusted to "persons who have no rights over them". Only where the parents had re-emerged to claim their children was it permissible for them to be handed back, and even then only if they had not been christened.

The revelation represents a fresh setback for the cause of Pius XII's canonisation. The present Pope is known to have wanted to beatify his predecessor as a first step towards declaring him a saint.

But the process was halted by a host of articles, books and films questioning Pius XII's failure to speak out publicly against Nazism and, in particular, the Holocaust.

His record is still a matter of heated dispute and the controversy surrounding him is unlikely to be resolved until the Vatican opens its wartime archives.

[sinkspur]

The Church should not send children to unknown institutions, who are ethnically Jewish, after being baptized and brought up Christian.

Should the Church have reunited baptized Jewish children with their parents?

[SJackson]

I don't know if it's true that Jewish children were not returned to their parents or family, based on the fact that they'd been baptized, but if it is, criticizing what to me is an immoral decision is in no way Catholic hatred. Nor does it demean the sacrifices of the many Christians who saved Jews. Even those who allowed children to return to their parents and their former faith. I've posted a number of articles about those folk.

[No_Outcome_But_Victory]

How is the article, or the story contained therein, expressive of hatred of Catholics?

It is an old and accepted tactic of anti-Catholics, especially those who actually are guilty of this, to claim the Catholic Church teaches hatred of Jews. They do not.

[sinkspur]

I'm sorry. You're going to have to do better than fantompowa.net. In its current issue of "Flame," it propagates the "electronic hijacking" of the planes that crashed into the WTC on 9/11. In addition, it links to whatreallyhappened.com, whose host, Michael Rivero, is the world's most notorious conspiracy theorist. He believes that JFK Jr's plane was brought down by a bomb under the wing. He's certifiable.

I need to see something independent of kookburger conspiracy websites.

[malakhi]

It is an old and accepted tactic of anti-Catholics, especially those who actually are guilty of this, to claim the Catholic Church teaches hatred of Jews. They do not.

Do you actually have any comment on the content of the article?

[dsc]

"Should the Church have reunited baptized Jewish children with their parents?"

Is what happens to a person in this life more important than where he spends eternity?

[Salvation]

**Hatred of Catholics - one of the still acceptable prejudices.**

How true............shall we phone the ACLU? </sarcasm

[SJackson]

It's in a number of papers, including the Guardian, the Independent, the Washington Times and a UPI feed. The original reporting seems to be the Independent.

I think the credibility question relates to the underlying source, which appears to be newly published diaries and papers of Pope John XXIII. None of the articles name the source of the papers.

[No_Outcome_But_Victory]

Do you actually have any comment on the content of the article?

Yes, I think it's a lie. A lie by those who choose to hate the Catholic Church.

However, if found to be true, I will recant my statement in true humility.

[sinkspur]

Is what happens to a person in this life more important than where he spends eternity?

Refusing to reunite a child with his parents is kidnapping, whether done by peasant or Pope.

Kidnapping is a mortal sin. So, sure, what happens in this life is pretty important, especially to the kidnappers.

[sinkspur]

The Washington Times is a credible source. Michael Rivero is not.

This practice would not surprise me, since Pius IX personally took a Jewish child into the Vatican after he was baptized. It seems to have been a specific policy toward Jewish children.

If this is true, it will tarnish Pius XII, especially when one of his cardinals who would later become Pope opposed it.

[DTA]

>>>>The letter deals a new and crushing blow to the reputation of the wartime pope, Pius XII<<<

When other Pius XII deeds are taken into consideration, this is not a blow, this is merely a mosqito sting.

Pius XII personal representative in Croatia, Monsignor Ramiro Marcone and Croatian Fuehrer Ante Pavelic

Monsignor Marcone and Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac with Croatian Nazis

Croatian fuehrer Ante Pavelic with RC clergy

Croatian Nazi combat unit in Vatican visit

The major embarrasment for Pius XII and The Holy See during WWII is called Independent State of Croatia where RC priests and nuns took an active role in mass murder of Serbs and Jews in extermination camps (there was even an extermination camp for children, the only one in Europe, where RC nuns "took care" of childen inmates).

Forcible conversions of Christians to RC faith were done with the full knowledge of Vatican and Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac presided over it.

/forcible conversion to RC faith in a village near Zagreb/

The crushing blow to Pius XII and The Holy See came AFTER WWII. It is called The Ratlines.

The RATLINES shows that Vatican's support to NAZISM CONTINUED even after the Hitler's threat to RC Church ceased to exist. Vatican promoted Archbishop Stepinac who presided over forcible conversions to Cardinal after WWII

If this is offending to you, it should be, because it should offend any Christian. If you never heard of it before, ask yourself how it is possible and why.

The only way for this stain to be removed is to speak openly about it. It will not fade away.

The official apology of Vatican for the crimes commited in the name of RC Church would be good start.

So far, Vatican has not apologized. To add an insult to injury, Cardinal Stepinac, who was an archbishop when he presided over forcible conversions in WWII was beatified in 1998.

[saradippity]

Children who have been baptized may not be entrusted to institutions not in a position to give them a Christian upbringing.

This seems reasonable in light of the fact that many of these children might have been claimed by agencies from Communist countries.

Don't forget many Jewish children from eastern Europe were sent to France and Spain and baptized,received papers and placed in orphanages or private homes for protection. When the war ended and countries parceled out by the Allies,it must have seemed just and right to continue to protect these children from going back to countries that were no longer free.

I did not read in any of the quoted passages any words that said they could not go back to the parents who showed up to claim them. I read "pwesons" and "institutions". This was right after the war and it was necessary to be womewhat circumspect,I would think. On the other hand,I may have missed something that would show the Vatican said "parents",if that is true please show me where it says that,and I will reconsider my take.

[Atlantic Friend]

"Hatred of Catholics - one of the still acceptable prejudices."

Oh, I don't know. Hatred of Americans seems pretty acceptable in so many parts of the world, and hatred of French people also seems very much in vogue in the vicinity. I had one Freeper explaining to me, once, that mocking the 200,000 soldiers who died fighting Nazi Germany was "socially acceptable".

[Grzegorz 246]

Yes, I agree, but first of all I doubt that this was common, also we should remember that it was only about 60 years ago, but anyway those were different times, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that in those times for example black people didn't have full rights even in the USA.

[ArrogantBustard]

It eventually spills out.

See post #11: It's doing a Kilauea act ...

[SuziQ]

The Vatican secretly issued instructions to the Catholic church in France not to return Jewish children to their families after the second world war, it emerged on Tuesday.

What a load of horse hockey! I personally knew an Israeli who had been hidden during the war in a convent; his parents in a home nearby. After the war, they reunited and eventually emigrated to Israel. He knew of hundreds of others who had been hidden in the same way.

Same old, same old. Anything folks can do to try to discredit the Church. If it weren't for the Catholic Church, half the Jews in Italy would have been shipped to concentration camps! As it was, they were hidden in convents, church basements and private homes all over the country. The Italian army wasn't too hot to trot about searching them out. It wasn't until the Germans arrived on the scene that any real round-ups took place, but many had already been hidden by that time.

[Bella_Bru]

being critized for being prudent regarding who they would go to after the war?

So, they shouldn't have been returned to their parents because *gasp* the parents might start raising them as (horror of horrors) Jews?

[Dominick]

Should the Church have reunited baptized Jewish children with their parents?

I think there the Church would not have a legal right to stand on, but, I am not sure if this had ever been done, assuming that they thought the children were orphans. If it was a decision of the children, the think that strikes me is how they said "case by case", did the children make the decision and do they need continue to need protection.
There is no evidence of Parents being denied the Children. Here is the document translated roughly AS PUBLISHED BY http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2004/12_Dicembre/28/poppapa.shtml:

The DOCUMENT "the giudei small, if it christens to you, must receive a Christian education" Publish the translation from originate them French of the document, dated 20 October 1946, that it was transmitted from the Sant' Uffizio nunzio to the apostolic Roncalli Angel. It originates them is found near Arches you to it of the Church of France. On purpose of the giudei children who, during the German occupation, have been entrusted to the institutions and to the catholic families and that hour they are it protests to you from the giudaiche institutions because they are given back they, the Congregation of the Sant' Uffizio has taken a decision that can be reassumed therefore: 1) Evitare, in the measure of the possible one to answer for enrolled to the giudaiche authorities, but to orally make it 2) Every time that will be necessary to answer, will have to say that the Church must make its surveyings in order to study every particular case 3) the children that they have been christens to you could not be entrusted to institutions that of it do not know to assure the Christian education 4) the children who do not have more the parents and of which the Church s' is made loaded, it is not convenient that they are less abandons from the same Church or entrusted persons to you who do not have some right on they, than they are not in a position to deciding of himself. That evidently for the children who had not been christens to you 5) If the children have been entrusted (to the Church) from their parents and if the parents hour demand them, they can be given back, admitted that the same children have not received the baptism. You notice yourself that this decision of the Congregation of the Sant' Uffizio has been approved of from the Saint Padre.

I think the document is inflammitory. Can it be verified?