Poll: Over 50% of Germans equate IDF with Nazi army

Jerusalem Post ^ | Dec. 7, 2004 | Etgar Lefkowits

[Alouette]

Six decades after the mass extermination of six million Jews in the Holocaust by Nazi Germany, more than 50 percent of Germans believe that Israel's present-day treatment of the Palestinians is similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews during World War II, a German survey released this weekend shows.

51 percent of respondents said that there is not much of a difference between what Israel is doing to the Palestinians today and what the Nazis did to the Jews during the Holocaust, compared to 49% who disagreed with such a comparison, according to the poll carried out by Germany's University of Bielefeld.

The survey also found that 68 percent of Germans believe that Israel is waging a "war of extermination" against the Palestinians, while some 32% disagreed with such a statement.

In a first reaction, the chairman of Yad Vashem's directorate Avner Shalev said Tuesday that the poll's results, which he termed "very worrisome," were indicative of a long-suppressed felling of anti-Semitism among the mainstream "so-called liberals" population which now, under the coating of anti-Israeli criticism, are becoming legitimate again. He added that the poll's results, which he said any objective person would repudiate, are also the result of the release of pent-up feelings of guilt built up from the Holocaust.

"The energies which bring about such answers come to protect feelings of guilt," Shalev said. 62 percent of respondents in the poll said that they were sick of "all this harping" of German crimes against Jews, while 68% said that they found it "annoying" that Germans today are still held to blame for Nazi crimes against Jews.

The survey, which aimed to determine what is "the cut off point" between criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism, finds that while "classical" anti-Semitism in Germany is on the wane, secondary anti-Semitism, often couched in anti-Israel views are on the rise, especially among the Left.

The German researchers who conducted the polls conceded that the results showing a majority of Germans equating Israel's Policy with Nazi Atrocities "may be worrying," but concurred with Yad Vashem's Shalev that the media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinians conflict has made such analogies part of the public discourse.

"When you see an image in the newspaper, in a caricature, which is repeated day in and day out that Sharon is equal to Hitler than the image catches in your head because maybe you do not like Jews so much or maybe you hate Jews, and than this works out excellent," Shalev said, stressing that education of the young generation was the key to stemming such a tide.

In the survey, 82 percent of the respondents polled said that they are angered by the way Israel is treating the Palestinians, while 45 percent of those polled said that considering Israel's policies it was "no surprise" that people were against them.

The telephone poll of 3000 "non-migrant" respondents, which was taken in May and June, did not come with a margin of error.

"This is a very sad commentary about what is happening in Europe today which needs to send a very strong warning signal about how much work needed to be done to deal with these attitudes," said, Dr. Ephraim Zuroff, the Israel director of the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center.

Due in part to its blighted history, Germany is generally considered to be one of the more supportive countries of Israel in Europe.

[Semper Paratus]

I thought the Palis were the ones who want a "Final Solution" to the Zionist problem.

[AMDG&BVMH]

P.S. "Due in part to its blighted history, Germany is generally considered to be one of the more supportive countries of Israel in Europe."

This is the context.

[Michael81Dus]

I´m sure there´s a whole lot of Israelis who would want a "Endlösung" of the Palestinian conflict, too.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"Surely, when Hitler made his speeches about Jews, he was just "criticizing" them, right?"

No, Hitler attempted to implement his eugenic policies; among them was to get rid of the People of the Book. Whom he viewed, neo-Darwinian-wise, as not fully human.

Surely this is not the same thing as criticizing certain tactics of the IDF, or the policies that lead to the employment of those tactics . . .

The survey question was likely along the lines: do you see similarity between Nazi tactics and the IDF tactics used against the Palestinians, such as . . . (naming some of the more controversial ones . . .)? A yes or no answer. It was not an open-ended college-essay question, such as "characterize the relationship between the Palestinians and the State of Israel, including the ethical implications of the relative practices of state-sponsored terrorism on the part of some Palestinians; the the defensive policies of the Israelis, such as bulldozing houses of those suspected of cooperating with terrorists, building a "defense wall" which impedes daily life in the Palestinian areas . . . etc. etc."

It is a reach to conclude that the survey results prove that "51% of Germans ACCUSE Israel of BEING Nazis."

It is more likely that 51% of the respondents to this survey ACCUSE GERMANS of BEING Nazis. ;)

[pepsionice]

I have lived in Germany for 11 years now. Their compass has a magnet at one end...and can never point the right direction no matter what the situation. These are the biggest fools on moral ground that walk the earth today. Hitler didn't seize power...he didn't have a coup and take over the government...this man was elected into office by regular Germans. And there are no better today than they were in 1933. Its a pitiful country with no sense of honor. ((I'm even married to one, and I sure can't say nothing positive about her moral compass either)).

[Smile-n-Win]

I meant that Germany has given a lot of support to the State of Israel.

With friends like these...

[Smile-n-Win]

51% probably compare the refugee camps to KZ, the killing of Palestinian civilians with Jewish victims of mass executions, and the attitude towards Palestinians like the mood in Germany in the 30´s.

...Which means that they have no idea what the Nazis did to the Jews.

[Smile-n-Win]

I´m sure there´s a whole lot of Israelis who would want a "Endlösung" of the Palestinian conflict, too.

There is nothing wrong with a final solution in itself. If my tooth is aching too much and I decide to have it pulled, that is a final solution to my toothache. Nothing immoral about that. The problems start when the proposed "solution" involves things like murder, rape, "medical examinations" done by Dr. Mengele, and so on.

A final solution to the problem of terrorism would be if Israel started acting like a nation at war normally does--like the U.S. and the U.K. did in World War II, for example. I, for one, would very much welcome such a solution.

[Smile-n-Win]

The survey question was likely along the lines: do you see similarity between Nazi tactics and the IDF tactics used against the Palestinians, such as . . . (naming some of the more controversial ones . . .)? A yes or no answer.

If that is what they actually asked, and this:

51 percent of respondents said that there is not much of a difference between what Israel is doing to the Palestinians today and what the Nazis did to the Jews during the Holocaust

is how they represent it, then the Herren who did the poll are among the biggest liars on Earth.

Besides, if they actually asked the question the way you put it, then the question itself is anti-Semitic. Only a person with an agenda would look for "similarities" between the "tactics" of the Nazis and the IDF and make a poll out of it.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"With friends like these..."

It may not be as one-sided a friendship as you imply. A year or so ago, a visiting orchestra from Germany played Wagner, I believe, in Israel. The conductor did not apologize for it, and the Israeli audience largely appreciated it. A sensible reaction, IMO. Why deny hearing beautiful music, because Hitler might have liked it too? For that matter, Ludwig REALLY liked Wagner's music, and Newschwanstein's rooms are decorated with images of the stories. Now, I guess one would have to boycott Ludwig's castles, because Ludwig liked Wagner, and Hitler liked Wagner; and Hitler was bad, so Wagner must be bad; so Ludwig's castles must be shunned. And it goes without saying that all Germans who like Wagner are closet Nazis . . . And even the ones who don't, are still closet Nazis. Well, not even closet Nazis, just Nazis, period; you can tell can't you, by everything they say and do. It is all suspect, all actions and words driven by a total devotion to anti-semitism. Which you will easily see if that is the conclusion you are already looking for.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"Only a person with an agenda "

Aha, yes, quite . . . why not investigate the dude who created the survey, instead of blaming the entire nation of Germany, some 3000 of whom actually responded to this agenda-driven survey?

[Smile-n-Win]

And it goes without saying that all Germans who like Wagner are closet Nazis

Appreciating the music of a composer neither cheapens the crimes of the Nazis nor slanders the Israeli Defense Forces. Likening the IDF to the Nazis does both.

[Smile-n-Win]

why not investigate the dude who created the survey, instead of blaming the entire nation of Germany, some 3000 of whom actually responded to this agenda-driven survey?

I am not blaming the entire nation of Germany. I am blaming the culture that this agenda-driven survey is a symptom of--or, more likely, the culture that has made a representative sample of Germans respond to the survey questions the way they did. And I blame all those Germans who consciously contribute to this culture.

[OESY]

You have written an eloquent and persuasive argument which should be read carefully by those who have visited this thread. Unfortunately, many of the posters are blinded by their hatred of all things German -- from a land once known for its composers, poets and philosophers before the invasions began. The posters are happy in their hatred because it is the one thing that unites them.

One poster implied no German has a right to express a moral opinion because they are German. It is a hatred rekindled 50 years ago by Nazism, even if some Germans fought against it and many lost their lives, and now by pacifism -- itself a revulsion to war and the Holocaust. It was a stupid and shameful remark.

Would that not mean no Jew could be judgmental because of Christ's death, no white because of slavery, no American because of manifest destiny? Of course not. Certainly one can argue that the admission of guilt and the payment of reparations has only encouraged Germany's enemies.

Anne Applebaum wrote in "Gulag: A History of the Soviet Camps" that it was easier for governments and scholars to look deeply into the Nazi horrors because they were looking at a system that had been destroyed. Telling the truth about Hitler did not require any government or any individual to take any dramatic action. No great risk was required, only honesty.

But to tell the story of the Gulag at any moment from the rise of Stalin to the end of the Cold War was to lay down a moral and political challenge to the West, and to force men and women of good faith to fight against the Soviet Empire. Thus, for several generations, Westerners were reluctant to take a hard look at Soviet Communism, because they were unprepared to fulfill the imperatives that flowed automatically from the subject itself. That reluctance persists today.

To indict Communism for killing 100 million, albeit not primarily Jews, is to indulge in an exercise of self-loathing because of their ineffectiveness in stopping the killing -- by Fascists and Communists -- and often because of what their parents or relatives believed in as the Noble Cause, the Great Dream.

Thus, it is noteworthy but not surprising that the vitriol on this and other FR threads always flows in the same direction. Of the skeptics I ask, Which is more prevalent: anti-Semitism or Racism of a different sort? What reason would anyone have to respect such views?

Hypocrisy and hatred are soulmates.

The survey and related story appear to be cleverly designed to foment the hatred that is on display. Many FR posters were willing dupes.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"Likening the IDF to the Nazis "

and as you seem to have also concluded, this result stems from an agenda-driven survey; a leftist sort of professor, likely. The methodology is even suspect, as no margin of error was given for the survey. All surveys which use standard statistical sampling at least include a margin of error.

Well, the survey certainly generated a lot of attention . . . likely what was desired. My take, of course. ;)

[Sprite518]

Further proof on why it was a good thing that we won WWII. If I was Jewish, then I would be highly enraged to say the least. I am perplexed that Germany has the audacity to say this...

[johnb838]

51% of Germans accuse Israel of being Nazis, and you brush it off as a form of "criticism" ??

When I was a child I got smacked for using the term nazi in play. If the Germans are using "Hitler" as a form of hyperbole, it is hughly inappropriate at the least, and hateful, shocking, and an attempt to intimidate Jewish people at worst. There is no excuse for calling anyone Hitler or Nazi, with the possible exception of Saddam, Arafat, and perhaps a few others. Including their thugees of course.

[johnb838]

I think there was a willingness to give Germany the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of this thread, but then certain Pro-Germany posters opened their cake-holes and spouted some hateful, anti-semitic things that removed ALL doubt.

[AMDG&BVMH]

You have given us all an excellent analysis. And BTW, thank you for your kind words. :)

The real shame is that one of the fundamental lessons of Nazism is missed in the certain type of knee-jerk reaction we see in some of these posts.

Wasn't it Hannah Arendt who said it showed us all the "banality of evil"? The same thing Solzhenitsyn tried to get across in the Gulag Archipelago: hey, you Russian citizens, how can you allow this to continue? this knock on the door of a neighbor in the night, which you ignore? The same thing pro-lifers try to convince people of about abortion: that ordinary people are capable of participating in inhumanity . . .

So, we don't see a recognition of the banality of evil, we see no lessons in it for ourselves. We only see: Germans are evil. "They" were Nazis. And likely still are.

How convenient, as you say, to keep projecting even the CAPACITY for human evil away -- over there, those other people; not me, not us.

And, as you also say, one reason it is successful is that the German nation has not resisted it, but has attempted to be a responsible modern nation. They have done basically whatever they think has been expected of them, and then even more, to make recompense and to rejoin the world of nations. Nazi and revisionist literature is illegal in Germany. However, the more they do, it seems, the more they are expected to do. The more they are expected to wallow in guilt, indefinitely. The more they are expected to claim to themselves the view of them that some posters here have: you Germans, you have no right to even exist; you should have been bombed off the planet, etc. etc. AND, of course, some Germans DO believe that about themselves.

It doesn't even seem to occur to those righteous posters that by throwing all Germans into the Nazi category, they are following the same logic Hitler used. Of course they are not for putting Germans into KZs, -- just dropping a couple atomic bombs on them . . . ;)

[Michael81Dus]

Could you explain your post a little bit? I´d like to know what these hateful, anti-semitic things were you mentioned, and maybe you show me the #´s of these on this thread?