Posted on 11/21/2004 11:45:29 AM PST by TapTheSource
"Taiwan is messed up?"
***Yes. From post #181, my original post in this series:
3) Taiwan has never declared independence. It's not like the brave Estonians standing up to Russia when communism fell. They're like an impudent child claiming to have sovereignty over China. Their fatal miscalculation is that they know they'll need Americans to fight for them if they are in a war, but Americans will be reluctant to shed blood for an ally that didn't have the courage to declare independence until they were invaded on an "internal dispute". The chinese will hammer away at this in the press.
That's right. Taiwan is so different culturally that the only way to compare the peoples of both is to compare apples to oranges. PRC Chinese refer to Taiwanese as "bannanas" because they are yellow on the outside and white on the inside, in other words they compare Taiwanese to Americans. It is not all like that. Most Taiwanese (86% of the population) descend from the Hoklo and Fujian (ethnic minorities from China).
Other Taiwanese descend from Korean, Japanese, and Vietnamese while the aboriginals there are Indonesian and other pacific islanders. 14% is made of the Han Chinese, which are primarily those who came over with Chiang Kai-shek and those that immigrated from China to Taiwan (not to mention the thousands of refugees they get from China each year seeking freedom).
Well I hope we have a strong administration should that happen, somone who will not give into the press's lies and disonformation.
That's not even a comparison. First thing is that unlike CHINA, the US is not a totalitarian communist dictatorship so Alaska has no reason to cede from the US.
Its not the US's fault that China is a communist dictatorship. And me, I would rather see a nuclear exchange than see free Taiwan overrun by the communist Chinese.
We should be making sure Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan, and the Philipines have a counter nuclear arsenal against N. Korea. Think that might burn China's ass?
Easy to talk tough when you don't have 1 billion + enemies 90 miles away.
It's not like the brave Estonians standing up to Russia when communism fell.
Or the brave Chechens.
They're like an impudent child claiming to have sovereignty over China.
I believe they stopped claiming that a while ago.
Their fatal miscalculation is that they know they'll need Americans to fight for them if they are in a war, but Americans will be reluctant to shed blood for an ally that didn't have the courage to declare independence until they were invaded on an "internal dispute".
I'm curious, was Tibet independent? Did we help them?
Can I get that in an X-Large?
Most definently. Rumor has it that Taiwan is already a nuclear-armed country, but Taiwan, Japan, the Phillipines all should be nuclear armed.
Yep,the US AGREED to BUILD 8 D/Es the moments Bush came in-the issue here is not on building them,but the US & Taiwan need to find a design to build subs with.We all know the US doesn't build or design D/Es & has no real plans either,so it would make it dependent on European nations to supply the design for a submarine,which would then carry American sensors & weapons & be built in the US.Sweden,France,Germany,the Netherlands & Russia are the main designers & builders of export D/Es & all these nations have made it adequately clear they won't "help Taiwan" in it's sub requirements(note the wording,they are only saying help,not build).The sub builders like South Korea,India,Turkey,Australia all build license produced D/Es from one of these countries & if they were to try to help Taiwan out,it would affect their own programmes.The only other Sub designing nation is Japan,who don't export anything & will esp be wary of p***ing of China.
PS-in 2002,there were reports that Northrop Grumman had unveiled a variant of the Type-209 D/E sub(A famous German design) to be produced for Taiwan.After that tensions between Germany & China & the US-Germany spat over Iraq sank the deal.Same goes for a plan to build a variant of the Spanish S-80 class sub(which anyways was essentially a French system).
On a side note. If North Korea (a nation possessing nuclear weapons by its own admission) should launch some "test" missle into the Western Hemisphere... I would detonate on Pyong Yang before it got wherever it was going...
I imagine it will probebly be a D/E version of a Los Angeles class or Seawolf class.
I agree. They so much as sneeze in our direction, hit em hard.
The point to be noted here is "if we wanted to" & given statements from people like Powell & Armitage,Im not exactly sure.
That won't be impossible,given America's tech base but it sure will be hard.First of all,D/E subs are a world apart from their nuclear cousins.Speed,size,sensors,armament are all vastly distinct.Tweaking an LA class boat into a D/E is nothing but a disaster as the biggest D/Es today(Australia's Collins class) only weigh about 3,000tonnes & the LAs displace 5,500+t.IT would have big manning problems(for a small navy like Taiwan) & it's size would be a massive impediment in what will essentially be shallow waters.Anyway,if a sub design is finalised,it will take atleast 2-3years to modify & settle for a design & atleast another 4 to build them.Question here is does Taiwan have the time to wait that long??
I don't know a lot about the current tech's but wouldn't Tiawan be served well to defend an invasion by lots of underwater rocket mines around their island?
That article I just posted did hint at the Aegis-equipped warships ("as well as ships equipped with advanced electronic battle management systems."), just five of them would knock down each and every missile pointed at Taiwan.
I hope Taiwan at least gets the P3 anti-submarine aircraft if they can't get te submarines.
"That's not even a comparison. First thing is that unlike CHINA, the US is not a totalitarian communist dictatorship so Alaska has no reason to cede from the US."
You're not putting yourself in their shoes. From their perspective I'm sure they think they are the nicest people and the saviors of mankind and true & wonderful communists, so there would be no reason for Taiwan to secede from their wholly benevolent union.
"I hope Taiwan at least gets the P3 anti-submarine aircraft if they can't get te submarines."
I'd rather see them get the subs. With a full load of the latest anti-shipping mines.
"You're not putting yourself in their shoes. From their perspective I'm sure they think they are the nicest people and the saviors of mankind and true & wonderful communists, so there would be no reason for Taiwan to secede from their wholly benevolent union."
I doubt they see it that way at all. At least not the leadership. They would view a formally independent Taiwan as a humiliating political defeat. So they're willing to go to war to prevent that once they believe they have enough of an edge. That's why it has to be done before that, preferably accompanied by choking off a lot of their income through the US adopting protectionist policies.
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