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Pat Buchanan: Right From the Beginning, Left at the End
Tech Central Station ^ | September 13, 2004 | Michael Rosen

Posted on 09/12/2004 11:45:19 PM PDT by quidnunc

-snip-

"Terrorism is the price of empire … [I]t's something the British might say when they were driven out of Palestine, the French might say when they were driven out of Algeria. Quite simply, in this modern world, if you try to rule other peoples, even to alter them, make them democratic or force them to change their ways to conform to your own, you're going to have a serious problem with those people. They're going to fight, just like the American revolutionaries fought against the British Empire. We ought to know that. We were the first people … to rise up against an empire." – September 3, 2004.

If you guessed that Michael Moore uttered these words, you would be half-right. Moore's infamous equation of Iraqi terrorists-cum-insurgents to the American minutemen earned him as much praise from the left as scorn from the center and the right. But you might be surprised to discover that Patrick J. Buchanan gave voice to the second quote during an appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher, a political talk-show airing on HBO.

Buchanan, variously described as an arch-conservative, a paleoconservative, and a populist conservative, has throughout his career shirked the orthodoxies of the Republican party and the prevailing norms of conservatism. In his magazine, The American Conservative, and in his latest book, Where the Right Went Wrong: How Neoconservatives Subverted the Reagan Revolution and Hijacked the Bush Presidency (Thomas Dunne Books, 272 pp.) — reviewed in these pages by Ramesh Ponnuru — Buchanan presents his case for an "authentic" conservatism that has been infected by radical, Johnny-come-lately variants. Yet many of Buchanan's positions, most recently on the War on Terror, have placed him and his supporters in ideological company with the left.

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at techcentralstation.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Extended News; Philosophy
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1 posted on 09/12/2004 11:45:19 PM PDT by quidnunc
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: quidnunc
Present a terrorist a flower...they'll cut it and you at the stem every time. It has been Holy War for centuries and the modernity of Western society forbid it to continue.
3 posted on 09/12/2004 11:55:05 PM PDT by endthematrix (STAND BY........New Tag Line In Progress..........STAND BY......New Tag Line in)
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To: quidnunc

bump!


4 posted on 09/12/2004 11:56:10 PM PDT by fso301
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To: quidnunc

F*ck Pat Buchanan. There, I said it.


5 posted on 09/12/2004 11:56:11 PM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: sflibertarian

Yes. Send a communique to the terrorists: "Stay on your side of the ocean and we'll stay here." Then the world will be just fine.


6 posted on 09/12/2004 11:58:34 PM PDT by endthematrix (STAND BY........New Tag Line In Progress..........STAND BY......New Tag Line in)
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To: sflibertarian
If you're looking for a place to actually discuss various views and positions held by different strains of conservatives, you've come to the wrong forum. Everything Bush does is perfect... everything Buchanan does or says is evil, or at least stupid. Got it? If not, I'm sure someone will explain it to you nicely.

GO BUSH/CHENEY!!

7 posted on 09/13/2004 12:00:01 AM PDT by Agrarian (The second most important election of the year is the Senate race in South Dakota -- donate to Thune)
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To: sflibertarian
I don't think Pat is all wrong in his viewpoint about the Iraq situation. We all agree it's a risky strategy, but, frankly, after 9/11 I don;t think there's much choice.

I just wish Pat would be honest and stop beating around the bush....in his view, like many on the radical left, it's the existance of the Jewish state of Israel that is the source of the current problems.

I'd have more respect for him if he'd just come out and say it and offer a solution that is in line with his views.

8 posted on 09/13/2004 12:11:59 AM PDT by zarf
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To: quidnunc
Yet many of Buchanan's positions, most recently on the War on Terror, have placed him and his supporters in ideological company with the left.

Oh good, so this wasn't just my imagination!

9 posted on 09/13/2004 12:15:42 AM PDT by Mockingbird For Short ("God and George W. Bush, a spiritual life" by Paul Kengor--- FANTASTIC!)
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To: Mockingbird For Short
Oh good, so this wasn't just my imagination!

Nope... t'wasn't.

10 posted on 09/13/2004 12:26:28 AM PDT by Tamzee (Free Republic .... Partisan Pajama People)
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To: quidnunc
It's very easy to call someone a man of the left or of the right when one doesn't clarify what one means by the terms. I know of at least two popular, mutually exclusive political spectrums that claim to describe the distinctions between left and right: One based on cooperative-competitive views of human nature, and one based on libertarian-totalitarian conceptions of the state.

The question "Why does Buchanan agree on some points with the Naderites?" can support a more robust answer than the simple "Because he's also a leftist." I'd rather see an analysis based on an explicit adherence to a political spectrum rather than on a petty attempt at establishing guilt by association. I could make an easy smear lumping Bush in with the Stalinists, because the current president of Poland(who supports Bush's efforts in Iraq) is an ex-communist. I could note that certain putative conservatives share with the Marxists the view that the market is a universal solvent that eats away at traditional cultures, leaving only self-interest behind. But if I did write only that, I'd have written an unhelpful essay just like this one. The question is, why do Buchanan's opinions exile him from the conservative movement, while the semi-marxist defenders of capitalism (for instance) are instead put forward as conservative leaders?

11 posted on 09/13/2004 12:27:05 AM PDT by Dumb_Ox (Ares does not spare the good, but the bad.)
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To: Dumb_Ox
I know of at least two popular, mutually exclusive political spectrums that claim to describe the distinctions between left and right: One based on cooperative-competitive views of human nature, and one based on libertarian-totalitarian conceptions of the state.

Scintillating points. Were it not for the material's combustible potential in the context of this forum, this would make for a deep and fascinating discussion.

12 posted on 09/13/2004 12:40:40 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Dumb_Ox

The answer is simple.

The left believes when America involves itself too much with the rest of the world, it is to the detriment of the rest of the world.

Pat Buchanan and the paleo-conservatives believes that when America involves itself too much with the rest of the world, it is to America's detriment.

Both beliefs would resolve in the conclusion that America should not (or should at least reduce) its international role.

Both are wrong, the Left is wrong because American involvment has always been to the world's benefit, not harm. The Paleo-Cons are wrong because they naively underestimate the threat to America from abroad, anyone who thinks that isolamic terrorism is "not a serious problem" after 9/11 is in denial.


13 posted on 09/13/2004 12:41:35 AM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: Truthsearcher

The man is quite an enigma to me. While his warnings about preserving our society are totally solid ("The Death of the West"), his bizarre support for the Palestinian state defies all logic. What's the deal, Pat? Did Kissinger pee on your shoes all those many years ago?


14 posted on 09/13/2004 1:11:53 AM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: NewRomeTacitus

Patricia sad with a straight face when he was being interviewed during the RNC that he does not believe Iran to be a threat.

And yet some people on the right take this man seriously. I'm a conservative, and I don't get it.


15 posted on 09/13/2004 1:45:12 AM PDT by WestVirginiaRebel (It's about the forgery, stupid.)
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To: WestVirginiaRebel
And I consider myself hyperconservative, yet vociferously reject illogical racism in all it's forms. The book I cited is quite excellent and (perhaps weirdly) never touches upon Buchanan's problems with Jewish people. It's tragic that such a fine mind has crippled its credibility so.
16 posted on 09/13/2004 2:14:36 AM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: sflibertarian

Grrrrrrrrrrr red meat!


17 posted on 09/13/2004 2:18:05 AM PDT by ninonitti (Staffordshire Terrier Mix)
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To: quidnunc

Any enemy of Israel is a friend of Buchanan's.


18 posted on 09/13/2004 2:21:17 AM PDT by Casloy
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To: Lexinom

Huh?


19 posted on 09/13/2004 2:22:40 AM PDT by Casloy
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To: NewRomeTacitus

I used to like Pat Buchanan - I have a dog-eared copy of "Right From the Beginning" in my collection, and no, it's not because I gave it to a dog to play with (not recently, anyway). He was bang on when Reagan was President. But as the Great Man slowly ascended into Heaven, Pat slipped into the deep recesses of opportunism and self-idolatory. His run for President on the Reform ticket was the worst example. He has recovered a bit by supporting President Bush in this cycle, but it is a long road back for him to being a true apostle of the Great Man.

Regards, Ivan


20 posted on 09/13/2004 2:26:06 AM PDT by MadIvan (Gothic. Freaky. Conservative. - http://www.rightgoths.com/)
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