Posted on 06/03/2004 4:19:13 AM PDT by NetValue
28 May 2004 - Al Qaeda lists successes since 9/11 on Global Islamic Media; Includes 2001 downing of American Airlines flight 587 that went down over Queens
In a stunning revelation to the Global Islamic Media Group this morning, Al Qaeda has revealed that they were responsible for the downing of American Airlines flight 587 over Queens in November 2001.
The article, published this morning on Global Islamic Media's Yahoogroup, lists the successes that Al Qaeda has achieved since the attack on America in September 2001. Al Qaeda has previously claimed credit for all of the other attacks on the list. The cause of the AA flight 587 crash is still listed by the FAA as accidental, with no indications of terrorism.
The following list itemizes the attacks that they are claiming:
Downing of the American Airlines plane over the Queens district of New York (City) on the 26th day of Shaban in the (Islamic) year 1422, equivalent to November 12th, 2001, killing 265 passengers as well as residents of that district. Bali nightclub attack in Indonesia that killed more than 200. Attack on Djerba, Tunisia Jewish temple, killing 20 German Jews. Attack at Faylakah in Kuwait. Attack on the French tanker Limburgh in Yemen. Attacks on Mombasa in Kenya against Jewish tourists, who were attacked in the their hotel, and the unsuccessful attack on the El Al airline with two missiles. Attack on the Marriott Hotel in the Indonesian capital Attacks in eastern of Riyadh, on residential districts where Americans and other westerners live Electrical power blockouts in the northern portions of America and the southern areas of Canada Electrical power blackouts in Great Britain. Attacks in Istanbul against the Jewish synagogues. Attachs in Istanbul battles against the British bank and the British consulate, in which the British consul was killed. Battle of Badr Riyadh in the residential complex Attack on the United Nations building in Baghdad in which Sirgo Des Milo, Kofi Annan's envoy, was killed Attacks in Nasserya against the Italian forces Attacks in Casablanca Attempted assassination of a dangerous ally of America, Pervez Musharraf Attacks in Madrid against three trains, killing 200 and injuring more than 1500 injured,
(Excerpt) Read more at homelandsecurityus.com ...
As a matter of fact, any accident investigator of any kind will tell you that eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable testimony of all.
Don't mix up stress capability with load capability. Plus, if they have large cross sectional area changes, they'll pick up stress concentrations.
Plus, the FAA, in their < sarcasim>infinite wisdom < /Sarcasim off> actually instructs mechanics to design mechanically fastened joint repairs to be fastener critical. This is bad for a number of reasons, mainly having the joint "Un-zip".
I wouldn't doubt airbus fallows the same practice...which actually might make sense with composites.
"Not "at the same time," so much as "after the first one broke." It would be a cascading effect -- the first one breaks, and sets up a rotational oscillation that begins to weaken and break the others. A few good twists and I can see them all popping, in a matter of a few seconds."
Aircraft sub-systems, such as the tail (vertical stabilizer) do not risk the entire aircraft on a single point failure. A single bolt failure that causes catastrophic loss of vehicle would not be tolerated, and a redundant feature would be added.
That is not even what happened on the crash of Flight 191, the DC-10 in Chicago in May 1979, although originally it was thought that a single pylon bolt was the sole cause the crash.
The 587 plane suffered a monumental and devastating force, which lead directly to the catastrophic loss of vehicle. Both engines came completely off in the air. The vertical stabilizer was completely liberated in the air.
Bottom row, left side, look at the sharp points on the left, if that was a fatigue failure, those edges would have rubbed and gone flat, not look sharp. That is certainly a catastrophic failure, not a fatigue failure.
I have seen discoloration like that from OIL being introduced to a cracked area, and the rubbing together for a fatigue failure to look like that, but a tail section would not have oil introduced into that area! It is also vertical, any oils would have dripped down, I have only seen failures like this on stuff that was tested horizontally. (sloppy mechanics)
One other consideration, if I am all wrong, and that was a fatigue failure, (things happen!) this aircraft would have been showing serious control problems from vibration during flight, and most likely vibrate to a point that scared the life out of the passengers and crew or create a noise that would be clearly noticeable in flight.
I find it impossible that a failure like this would be caused by a fatigue failure that would not be noticeable in flight by any half trained air-crew, especially someone actually at the controls.
You got me on the bolts, though, I havent seen these in a while! I remember seeing NO BOLTs, but I might be thinking of the lower pictures, I can see the bolts in the top shot.
That was a foolish settlement -- that the government offered. The whole charity drive was a lot foolish by mismanagment as well -- but at least, being private, it set no bad precedent. The government handout was big foolish for being offered at all, and continues foolish in the handouts.
The black, burnt areas around the bolt holes, that blackness.
Or, maybe the composite material itself is black. I have a composite material made from graphite. That piece is black.
I would not call that fatigue, I would call that catastrophic.
One problem here, though, is this is a poured composite, not a laminate through and through, it is like a solid, it may have layers of laminate in it, but it is poured or laid in dripping wet like a speghetti, that's the type it looks to me, it has fibers through it, but is not a sheet, it is put ina mold like a piece of dough laid in a mold neatly, as if poured from one side to another, or hand laid out like you would a lasagna, but in a mold to that shape.
That would make failure look like a crack through many layers, thats why on one side there are different layers stickingout sharp, stuff sticking out in shards.
If this was fatigue, those edges would have been worn down and flattened, not stayed sharp, the back and forth motion would have made the sharp edges dull.
"...to make sure we weren't teaching such silly wake escape manuevers to our pilots (we weren't - we were taught that moving a 30 foot tall rudder with 3,000 psi should be done SLOWLY)."
If that is the case, then there is a major problem in the design that is not the fault of the pilot. If a hydraulic actuator has the power to break off a tail under any condition, then either the tail strength is underdesigned or the actuator strength is overdesigned, or the system damping is insufficient.
Design margin should exceed 1.0 by a sufficient amount, and aircraft standard is 1.2 or more depending on worst case external forces. Can you imagine the howls of protest if owners of some car model were told they shouldn't apply the brakes too hard or the knuckles would rupture and the wheels would fall off and send you out of control?
You mean, control problems such as several sharp, hard-over rudder movements?
I wondered that, too, a lot of Graphite stuff is black, but look at the outside surface: GREEN, most that I have seen in green colored, the graphite I have seen in spars is greyer and only is a layer or so, not through the materials in all places.
I say the black is a heat damage from the incident of shearing, failure itself. Too many sharp edges.
For the record, fatigue would NOT MAKE EDGES DISAPPEAR, but the sharpness would NOT remain over time, it would on the outer edges of th material, you can see a fraying of the material like a wisping of thematerial, but not inside, that would be pressed and opened many times, it would be reduced in sharpness. I see too much sharpness.
Yep, retired NYPD and FDNY, the least reliable people on the block. They were at different locations, but saw the same thing. I think I'll take their word for it.
Yep, retired NYPD and FDNY, the least reliable people on the block. They were at different locations, but saw the same thing. I think I'll take their word for it.
"You mean, control problems such as several sharp, hard-over rudder movements?"
See my post just above yours.
I said it twice...I must really mean it.
It would be in both directions, not just one, and once in the diretion of the crack-to-open, THAT would be a certain hard over rudder!
One to GROUND the airplane by any smart pilot!
That is one reason I dont believe it is fatigue, it would be too obvious, the tail FAILING to cause a hard rudder movement, and to SEE the damage there, that would be obvious to Ray Charles as an inspector!
"As a matter of fact, any accident investigator of any kind will tell you that eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable testimony of all."
This might be true with one witness, but not two who stated virtually the same observations.
Quite an impressive list of 'accomplishments'. No wonder the flea bitten rag heads live in the 5th century. They spend what minimal brain power they have dreaming up ways to destroy things and kill people.
If there was significant heating, the melting of resin might have "softened" the frayed appearance. Anyway, pure speculation from me, on all points.
http://www.abaris.com/Downloads/Newsletter1-v4.pdf <-- Interesting facts in this publication
That brings out an interesting question. Anyone know the area of the vertical tail?
We can assume a max CL of 1.0(conservatively low) for the Stabilizer/ Rudder, and 250kts and SL gives a dynamic pressure of 210 psi. That means the total force acting on the tail is 30240Xarea in sq ft (in reality it could be almost twice that). Then guess a VS height of 30 feet, that force acts between 15 and 10 feet above the root, and you end up with a HUGE freaking overturning moment.
In short, it wouldn't take much to show a full rudder deflection, even at a relatively slow speed, will remove the stab before the stab stalled.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.