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To: seamole; DocRock; DallasMike; AFPhys; All
This may seem as if I'm arguing both sides of the case, but what I'm putting forth is one argument carried to one glorious conclusion based on the character of God and Scripture.

The God of the Cross and the Bible is not situationally ethical. There is no other situation that more graphically puts Jesus' words to the test about denying Him than when one's life is on the line. If one doesn't believe Jesus meant what He said, what's the point in believing in Him?

Does He have power to save souls and deny them heaven, or does He not?

Having said that, I want to add a most precious aspect of God's grace to the balance. As long as there is breath, there is time to repent of sin. The Arab hostage sinned, about as egregiously as possible. It was a failure of love. Jesus said, "If you love Me, obey My commandments." Yet the Arab can turn this tragic event into repentance and therefore, into being received again by Jesus.

At the day of the Great Judgment, this denial will be replayed. But so will any later act of repentance for the denial. I'm sure he'll think differently about it then than he does now, because then he'll be standing in the face of Perfect Love that refused life and chose death, to save his soul. Jesus' command to us is no more or less than His Father's command to Him to lay down His life for us.

God understands the depth of our love for Him and how far it will take us. From what I know of the Father's love, He is wanting to draw this man closer to Him than ever. I pray God breaks his heart with the true understanding of what he has done, and gives him grace to repent deeply, to make him into a new man, one who would willingly lay down his life for the One who died for him.

British public school children even until Churchill's day read Fox's Book of Martyrs in class. We have lost our institutional hold on the price of Christian faith; alongside this tidying up has come situational ethics that result in the various elements of belief expressed so widely in the church. A further effect of choosing to forget our heritage of laying down one's life for his friends is the utter squeamishness so many in the world feel today toward military service. Dear Lord, how could we have fought World Wars I and II without this inner strength? May God bring us back to the simple, exquisite depth of His love for us.

299 posted on 05/31/2004 11:23:51 AM PDT by GretchenM (No military in the history of the world has fought so hard and so often for the freedom of others.-W)
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To: GretchenM
Nice post. I have been trying to read through Fox's Book of Martyrs in the last few weeks. You can read it on-line HERE.
305 posted on 05/31/2004 11:32:25 AM PDT by DocRock
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To: GretchenM; sauropod
"That was before Peter was indwelt by the Holy Spirit who gives us power to be Christ's witnesses; it was before he had entered into the fulness of salvation."

There was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit before Christs death and resurrection, so Peter was acting in his own inadequate strength.

344 posted on 05/31/2004 12:29:21 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: GretchenM

This has been a very interesting post; (I have read 300 replies so far.. I have never read so many replies on any topic, ever, lol... but this topic is fascinating.)


This is not addressed to anyone in particular but is a general question for Catholics. If you had not been to confession and were not in the state of grace,.. and were presented with this situation (deny you faith or die).. would you have confidence that you could be killed and still get to Heaven?


(p.s. Note: I'm not interested in arguing Protestant vs Catholic or debating the 'need for the Sacrament of Reconciliation'. Just interested in fellow Catholics' point of view.)


441 posted on 05/31/2004 2:09:38 PM PDT by MindFire
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