Marines Want Their .45s Back

StrategyPage.com ^ | April 23, 2004

[Cannoneer No. 4]

April 23, 2004: The U.S. Marine Corps is looking for a new .45 caliber (11.4mm) pistol. While the American military retired the M1911 .45 caliber in 1985, some commando units still prefer it. This is because the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) bullet weighs twice as much as the 9mm one that replaced it and still has an edge in "stopping" someone hit with it. But the 9mm M9 pistol magazine carries 15 rounds, versus seven in the M1911. The commandos (Special Forces, SEALs, Marine Force Recon) counter that their operations are the type where every round counts, and the fewer you have to fire the better. For the regular troops, the M9 has been popular, and successful. The 9mm weapon is lighter, has less recoil and has the extra ammo for users who are not sharpshooters.

The Marines want to buy 1,100 new .45 caliber pistols and are having a competition to determine which of several models available will get the $1.9 million contract. The Marines have been using M1911s rebuilt from the many old ones turned in when everyone switched to the M9. But even this supply is running out, and it is known that there are newer .45 caliber designs out there that are more reliable, lighter, easier to repair and more accurate. Some Marines (and other troops) buy these newer .45 caliber weapons with their own money. Most American combat units tolerate troops bringing in some additional weapons, especially pistols. Some troops have been buying 10mm pistols, seeing this as a nice cross between the lighter weight of the M9 (2.55 pounds versus three for the .45) and the greater stopping power of the 11.4mm M1911 bullet. But there are new .45 models that weigh as much as the M9, carry more bullets (10) and are easier to repair than the M1911.

Afghanistan also raised the issue of stopping power once more, when individual troops went into caves or other tight places, where only a pistol could be used. In these cases, every shot counted, and the guy firing larger (like 11.4mm instead of 9mm) bullets was more likely to win. But most troops agree that any arguments over pistols is minor compared to issues involving all the other more frequently used weapons and bits of equipment. Nevertheless, there's something about pistols…

[Shooter 2.5]

The first problem I had with my Springfield Ultra-Carry was the first rounds in the mag wouldn't allow the slide to lock completely.

What happened was the inspector stamped the underside of the slide with deeply set numbers. The rough surface would ride against the top cartridge in the mag. It took about three hours to find the problem but the hint was shavings from the cartridges were dusting the top of the frame.

I sent it back and they repolished the slide.

[tet68]

As I recall it used to be specific about ankle holsters
but now it only says must be holstered.

I carry those codes packed in with my CCW.

DsA we really should have a range get together,
the Atlanta/georgia freepers haven't had a get together
in a while.

In the spring before it gets too hot, maybe "the LBGA Shoot".

[Squantos]

Duhhhhhhh (toe in dirt) I'm stoooopid. Thanks yer right. Doom on me !!.......:o)

Stay safe !

[Shooter 2.5]

That's a very common mistake. I do it myself once in a while. It would seem that the largest and most visible would be the main one.

[dansangel]

In the spring before it gets too hot, maybe "the LBGA Shoot".

Love it.

.45MAN and I were making plans to take her to the local indoor range just before she took ill the second (and last) time.

If heat/weather is an issue, there's a great indoor range on Peachtree Industrial/Medlock Bridge in Norcross. We refused to go there for the longest time, but have gone back since they are now enforcing safety rules.

Thank you for the clarification on the ankle holster issue. I have an ankle holster but have not found the right gun for carry there.

(((((tet68)))))

[dansangel]

any other holster, hipgrip, or any other similar device, in which event the weapon may be concealed by the person´s clothing, or a handbag, purse, attache case, briefcase, or other closed container.

That sure says it all to me. That's the way I had interpreted it, as well. Thanks ((((FP))))

PS to tet - I carry the CCW law in my wallet at all times, too. Just hoping I wasn't misinterpreting anything.

[ExSoldier]

"the combination of friction and a powerful spring might be letting the slide start to return too soon."

Meaning that the powerful spring and the fact that the slide itself is creating too much friction is keeping the slide from full retraction on the extract? Why not just lube the side of the slide or the rails? Or is this "FLITZ" a lube? I have never heard of it. Got a resource for this stuff, like a link? Sorry if I sound a little stupid this morning.

[archy]

<Prohibition against ankle holsters in Atlanta?

FP - is that true? It was my understanding that was rescinded a while back. *****

the pistol, revolver, or firearm may only be carried in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster, any other holster, hipgrip, or any other similar device, in which event the weapon may be concealed by the person´s clothing, or a handbag, purse, attache case, briefcase, or other closed container. Carrying on the person in a concealed manner other than as provided in this subsection shall not be permitted and shall be a violation of this Code section.

An ankle holster would seem to be covered under "any other holster".

In the 1970s when I was working in the Atlanta area, we were informed that ankle holsters were for cops only. I had previously sometimes so carried my S&W M49 bodyguard, but switched over to a Bianchi upside-down underarm shoulder rig easily enough, and modified the ankle rig for my S&W to serve as a 4-magazine carrier for my M1911A1 instead, an arrangement I've come to prefer that also saves buying ankle weights for wear while jogging.

The law could well have changed since then, or its interpretation, which could also vary in some areas.

[archy]

I guess it's just a case of "to each his own, as the lady said when she kissed the cow." :-D

Depends on what you kiss the cow with, too.

[archy]

Just in case, does anybody know anything about the reliability and accuracy of the EAA "Witness" Steel Compact in .45? I can afford that but not some of the "high falutin" 1911 clones like the new Sig GSR or the ParaOrd. I especially can't afford something like a P245 Sig! I'm just a high school teacher of American Government. If the micro doesn't work, I can probably trade it for the EAA.

I've got a pal and former co-worker with an EAA "Tactical II" not now in production from EAA, but which could be assembled from available parts or likely located on a gun auction site. Steel frame and short slide and full capacity, and he figured that if it didn't work in the shorty configuration, he'd return the longer slide and barrel and still have an excellent belt gun. As it turned out, it works just fine, and if he wants the longer sight radius and extra weight, he can still add the longer barrel and slide he picked up when he bought a second pistol for his wife, who found the extra weight of the steel frame helpful in soaking up .45 recoil.

[Double Tap]

Sometimes you just get a faulty firearm too. The last one I bought was a "Rock Island Armory". A fairly inexpensive firearm (around $350.00) that I could carry without worrying about taking a huge loss if it got stolen. The thing is made in the Philippines and is supposed to be a Springfield lower with an old left over G.I. slide. Seemed like a good idea.

Sometimes you see some bad information on the net, but that is a doozy.

Rock Island Armory pistols are made in the Philippines by Armscor. They have a cast slide and frame.

Springfield Armory 1911's are made in Brazil by Imbel and have forged slides and frames.

From my own experience, they are not even in the same league as far as quality, giving the win to SA.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[FreedomPoster]

I think the current enabling legislation for concealed carry dates from c. 1985.

[tet68]

I'll check with a friend of mine, he used to be deputy chief of the city of Atlanta but is now retired, he would
know. But having had various gun conversations with him in
the past I seem to recall something about having an ankle
holster just means you get shot in the TOP of your head,
also hard to run with one of those things.

We really need to get together, though I imagine that indoor
range doesn't allow long arms? Many don't.
I have a fair assortment of military rifles (Mausers, Mosins,SKs,L1a1FAL,etc I could bring.
Have you fired a CZ-52 pistol yet? They are quite inexpensive (around $100 if you have a C&R plus the wholesalers deliver next day air. ) and fire a fairly impressive round. 7.62x25 Roller lock action and they
field strip easy.

Charlie Elliot WMA is south of Atlanta near Mansfield.
Lets keep working on this.

[dansangel]

We really need to get together, though I imagine that indoor range doesn't allow long arms? Many don't.

This one, in fact, does. .45MAN informs me that the first two lanes are used for those shooting rifles.

No, I haven't shot the CZ. .45MAN just pulled one up on the internet and it looks like a nice handgun - but *heavy*! At 34 oz. my poor shoulder (I carry in a concealed carry handbag along with everything else a woman needs) would be killing me.

I think the range you're talking about is where David Blinder gives handgun instruction. I'm fairly certain we took his armed self-defense class near Mansfield.

[dansangel]

archy - if we are able to get something together, would you be interested in coming back to join us? I'm not sure how far away from metro Atlanta you are.

[tet68]

The slide and rails should be lightly lubed in any event
but as machined they will have high spots that a thousand
rounds cures, the Flitz metal polish seems to take these down even though it isn't abrasive.(that's what they say)

put a little dab on each rail then work the slide back and forth by hand for five minutes, then flush out, lube and you will be able to feel the difference.

Look them up with google, they will even send you a sample.
As will the folks at Militec (lube).
www.militec-1.com

Warning: I am not a trained gunsmith nor do I play one on tv.

WECSOG Graduate.

[Smartass]

There isn't a better weapon than the .45 cal for
close and hand-to-hand combat. The .45 will not only
blow the enemy away, but it can among other things,
be used as a club.

[archy]

archy - if we are able to get something together, would you be interested in coming back to join us? I'm not sure how far away from metro Atlanta you are.

I'm in Memphis, so it's about an 8 hour drive, 6 if I'm on a motorbike. I've got a minister pal in LaGrange deserving of an overdue visit, so I could easily piggyback the two good reasons for a relaxing return to Georgia if I can shoehorn them into my work schedule, not impossible with enough lead time.

By all means keep me on any ping or FReepmail list, and let me know of your plans. I'd love to be able to make it, and that's an easy bike ride for me, and a quicker and easier plane trip.

[archy]

I think the current enabling legislation for concealed carry dates from c. 1985.

Passed in 1989, per the source *here* which could easily be off a year or two; certainly there were repeated attempts to get the law corrected as far back as 1995. As in most states, it took tries over several legislative seasons.