Posted on 04/23/2004 4:21:45 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4
April 23, 2004: The U.S. Marine Corps is looking for a new .45 caliber (11.4mm) pistol. While the American military retired the M1911 .45 caliber in 1985, some commando units still prefer it. This is because the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) bullet weighs twice as much as the 9mm one that replaced it and still has an edge in "stopping" someone hit with it. But the 9mm M9 pistol magazine carries 15 rounds, versus seven in the M1911. The commandos (Special Forces, SEALs, Marine Force Recon) counter that their operations are the type where every round counts, and the fewer you have to fire the better. For the regular troops, the M9 has been popular, and successful. The 9mm weapon is lighter, has less recoil and has the extra ammo for users who are not sharpshooters.
The Marines want to buy 1,100 new .45 caliber pistols and are having a competition to determine which of several models available will get the $1.9 million contract. The Marines have been using M1911s rebuilt from the many old ones turned in when everyone switched to the M9. But even this supply is running out, and it is known that there are newer .45 caliber designs out there that are more reliable, lighter, easier to repair and more accurate. Some Marines (and other troops) buy these newer .45 caliber weapons with their own money. Most American combat units tolerate troops bringing in some additional weapons, especially pistols. Some troops have been buying 10mm pistols, seeing this as a nice cross between the lighter weight of the M9 (2.55 pounds versus three for the .45) and the greater stopping power of the 11.4mm M1911 bullet. But there are new .45 models that weigh as much as the M9, carry more bullets (10) and are easier to repair than the M1911.
Afghanistan also raised the issue of stopping power once more, when individual troops went into caves or other tight places, where only a pistol could be used. In these cases, every shot counted, and the guy firing larger (like 11.4mm instead of 9mm) bullets was more likely to win. But most troops agree that any arguments over pistols is minor compared to issues involving all the other more frequently used weapons and bits of equipment. Nevertheless, there's something about pistols…
My maternal grandfather was at one point the New Jersey state commander of the VFW, and had an application in for more than half a year without result. When election time rolled around, the sitting governor inquired about the possibility of an endorsement, against a non-veteran opposing candidate, I believe. Granddad told the gov that he'd be glad to suggest the possibility, but he could expect approval to take at least six months or more, plus as long as he had to continue waiting on the approval of his handgun permit. The next day, it was delivered to him by the director of the NJ state police personally, with apologies.
Well, I guess that's one way to get the lights turned down to get a little practice in for low-light confrontations....
I'm sure there are others, besides those pinged here, who would be interested.
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Sure would, but I'd like to do a rifle range, if possible.
I used to live and work in the Atlanta area, and I'd love to get back- and that'd certainly be a great reason to do so. I find the Georgia prohibition against ankle holsters irksome though not overwhelming, but agree with Vigilant Citizen's observation that a rifle range would be a desirable setting.
But wouldn't it be especially swell to have a FReeper gun club affiliated with the CMP for Garand and other surplus military rifle sales, and to put on a couple of qualifying matches annually for FReepers interested in making a CMP Garand or other rifle purchase?
Actually, this argument is entirely your fault. I thought that over $1,700 for a pistol is exorbitant, un-called for, and ridiculous, and here you come saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Does everyone who disagrees with you not know what they're talking about, or only me?
We could have been pals, you know. Rehashed old times in the service. Hoisted a few for our buddies that won't be coming home. That sort of thing. But I guess it's not to be. Oh well - you can't be friends with everyone. Bad chemistry, I guess. Anyway, you jarheads never did get along with us Regular Army guys.
Got a .45 question...a buddy of mine just picked up a brand-new Springfield Mil-Spec fullsize M1911A1. In his first practice session, he experienced failures to feed on the first round in all his mags. These included one McCormick PowerMag and the two issue Springfield mags. Ammo was both hardball 230-grain FMJ and lead roundnose. I told him that he might just need to "break in" the gun a little more and use the FMJ only for a while, and to call Springfield and McCormick about the mags if the problem continued.
Sounded to me like a mag problem, but I've used PowerMags myself now for years, without any troubles at all in my "loaded" Springfield.
Mine itself took about 300 rounds to "break in", plus a vow to NEVER use "Win Clean" ammo again.
Any thoughts on the problem, from anyone?
Sorry I forgot to ping ya LC.......my memories shorter than my ....Oh never mind.
Stay safe !
They're easy to spot. They hold the weapon flat sideways like those BAD A$$ "Gangstas" they see on the tube! LOL
Stay safe !
9mm is really just .380 Magnum!
I have carried a 1911 type for my entire adult life. There is NO finer or more reliable weapon, in my opinion.
Semper Fi
Sounded to me like a mag problem, but I've used PowerMags myself now for years, without any troubles at all in my "loaded" Springfield.
Mine itself took about 300 rounds to "break in", plus a vow to NEVER use "Win Clean" ammo again.
First thing I think I'd try: downloading the magazines by one shot initially. There are a couple of custom fgolloweers that might help, too, but it does sound like a *new gun* problem.
In breaking in a new gun, I tend to do a lot of initial shooting with magazines loaded with 3 rounds anyway, getting more practice in fast magazine changes. The last time I was given a new .45 to wring out and see what I thought of it, I recall putting about 8 boxes through before it settled down into the usually exhibited M1911A1 reliability.
BTW the factory recoil spring weight in a GI M1911A1 is 16#. An 18-pounder sound fine and just a bit of a fudge over the line. But maybe initially, until the rest of the gun's worn in, it might be worth a try with a specified 16# spring.
Dr. Martin L. Fackler, M.D is the terminal ballistician who developed the standardization procedures for *ballistic* geletin for bullet performance tests.
There are those who refer to him and his followers as *jello junkies* as a result, but he's been observing the effcts of gunshot wounds for quite a few years, and I think most of his opinions aren't quite that easily dismissed. Many of his theories are controversial, but at least offer possible theories about how the physics of wounding occur...sometimes.
A starting place for some of his thoughts can be seen *here*
One of his essays in particular that teed a good many folks off was his 1994 essay "The 'Strasbourg Tests:' Another Gunwriter/Bullet Salesman Fraud?" Wound Ballistics Review, 1(4): 10-11; 1994....
He said the problem went away if the mags were only loaded with six shots each. I've no idea if the Mil-Spec Springfield uses a 16 or 18 pound recoil spring...I do know that my "Loaded" one uses 18#.
It sounded like he chambers the first shot from the mag himself, fires it, and number 2 hangs up. Again, downloading the mags cures the problem for him.
He's just wondering if he wasted money on the McCormick mag, or if this is normal "new gun" teething.
It sounded like he chambers the first shot from the mag himself, fires it, and number 2 hangs up. Again, downloading the mags cures the problem for him.
He's just wondering if he wasted money on the McCormick mag, or if this is normal "new gun" teething.
Are you physically close enough to him to let him try your mags in his pistol, and/or for you to try his mags in yours?
Alternately, the fact that a down-loaded magazine works sounds like the magazine spring tension may be a bit light. I think I'd try a GI or Chip McCormick magazine, especially if his mags are 8-round capacity mags.
The Brits consider the magazines for a Browning GP to be 12 round capacity, though I can get 14 in mine with no difficulties. But for business, I do as the old Sar-major would have said and load a dozen, with the lucky 13th up the spout. Sten guns worked better with 28 or so loaded in some magazines rather than the full 32, as well.
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