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U.S. declares War on Porn
Baltimore Sun ^ | April 5, 2004 | Laura Sullivan

Posted on 04/05/2004 9:23:56 PM PDT by Quick1

WASHINGTON -- Lam Nguyen's job is to sit for hours in a chilly, quiet room devoid of any color but gray and look at pornography. This job, which Nguyen does earnestly from 9 to 5, surrounded by a half-dozen other "computer forensic specialists" like him, has become the focal point of the Justice Department's operation to rid the world of porn.

In this field office in Washington, 32 prosecutors, investigators and a handful of FBI agents are spending millions of dollars to bring anti-obscenity cases to courthouses across the country for the first time in 10 years. Nothing is off limits, they warn, even soft-core cable programs such as HBO's long-running Real Sex or the adult movies widely offered in rooms of major hotel chains.

Department officials say they will send "ripples" through an industry that has proliferated on the Internet and grown into an estimated $10 billion-a-year colossus profiting Fortune 500 corporations such as Comcast, which offers hard-core movies on a pay-per-view channel.

(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: algoresfault; antichristianbigot; ashcroftbashing; babyboomers; blamealgore; clintonlegacy; clintonlibertarians; crime; culturewar; doasthouwill; fbi; hedonism; hedonists; homosexualagenda; ifitfeelsgooddoit; internetporn; itsjustsex; libertarianflamewar; libertinarians; libertines; obscenity; obscenitylaws; permissivesociety; porn; pornisfun; pornisgood; pornography; promiscuity; religiousintolerance; sex; slipperyslope; supremecourt; waronporn; wasteoftime; wildgoosechase
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To: biblewonk
it was as "illegal" as prostitution is today. IE not really illegal at all.

When you ban a desired commodity, you drive up its price, which gives its producers money to bribe law enforcement. Corruption is an inevitable effect of such bans.

481 posted on 04/07/2004 2:15:19 PM PDT by Sweet Land (http://www.savingangel.org)
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To: LowOiL
You haven't told the whole story. http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ad0b80b3a17.htm - NO KING BUT JESUS: Romans 13 and the Perfect Law of Liberty
482 posted on 04/07/2004 2:16:42 PM PDT by Sweet Land (http://www.savingangel.org)
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To: LowOiL
unless someone comes to my front door dressed in a g-string, then you will see some butt kicking

If a hot babe showed up at my door with only a g-string, I think butt-kicking would be the last thing on my mind. Well, maybe the kicking I'd get by the wife if I stared too long.

483 posted on 04/07/2004 2:17:20 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Sweet Land
Enforcing my personal morality on others is repulsive to me.

Perhaps that is because you have no idea what is moral. You have lost the ability to judge the smallest of things.

"Judge Rightly"

An absurd question has stymied the Church. Should Christians judge?
Of course believers should judge. To not judge is to be indecent, not to mention inhuman. The only kingdom in which there is no judging is the plant kingdom. For of living things, vegetables do not judge. In the animal kingdom, though, judgment is a must, and members of the Kingdom of God must do the most judging.
Jesus repeatedly taught men to judge rightly, insisting they "judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24) and He praised a man who "rightly judged" (Luke 7:43). Paul shamed the Corinthian Christians because there was no one among them willing to "judge the smallest matters" (1 Cor. 6:2). As the Apostle wrote, "He who is spiritual judges all things" for "we have the mind of Christ" (1Cor. 2:15-16). The notion that judgment is wrong is a ludicrous one. Should child-molesters escape condemnation? Should rapists be free from criticism? Should society refrain from judging those arrested for murder? Should we call evil good? Or would that be a judgment too?
"Judge not" is the prayer of those who want to hide light under a basket. The cliché describes salt which has lost its flavor, which no longer seasons or preserves. Those seduced by this terrible lie are taken out of the game. As spectators on the sidelines, they only watch the spiritual battle. But they are in a comfort zone. Apathy is the craving. "Judge not" is the mantra for shirking responsibility.

A lie paralyzed the Church. To abhor evil, someone must first judge evil. God instructs men against "hypocrisy" commanding them to "abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9). Thus, unable to judge, and unaccustomed to abhorrence, Christians en masse become hypocrites when they obey the Hypocrites Golden Rule. For "judge not" (Mat. 7:1-5) is simply a hypocrites application of do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Mat. 7:12). "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged" (Mat. 7:2). Judge others as you would have them do unto you inverted is Judge not if you do not want to be judged. Therefore the hypocrite does not judge. As Jesus said, "Judge not… you hypocrite" (Mat. 7:1, 5 KJV; Ezek. 16:52).
Christ kept this theme throughout His ministry. "Hypocrites," Jesus said, "why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?" (Luke 12:56-57). Still, His own followers have mostly ignored the Lord’s harsh rebuke: "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye" (Mat. 7:5). "Judge Not" is the Hypocritical Oath.
"Judge Not" is hypocrite haven. He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. Such Christians, though, should relocate. Move into "the temple of the great God, which is being built with heavy stones" (Ezra 5:8). Christians live in the "building" for which Christ is "the chief corner stone" (Eph. 2:20). And if that Stone falls on someone it "will grind him to powder" (Mat. 21:44; Luke 20:18; cf. Ex. 32:20). It is better to be judged by a Christian than crushed by Christ.
Scripture deals with topics which range from simple to advanced truth. There is the milk which is for babes in Christ, but the meat is for men of God. The question of whether or not Christians should judge is milk. It is preschool. The newest believer discipled with any of a hundred passages would immediately understand that he must judge. Judging others is fundamental. It is not a difficult concept and should in no way be controversial. "Everyone who partakes only in milk is unskilled in the Word of righteousness, for he is a babe" (Heb. 5:13). The Church today, however, has trouble even with milk. Extreme ignorance of the Bible has crippled the Church. And that crippling is obvious in virtually every denomination, and in almost all local fellowships. What is the percentage of Christians who have succumbed to the "Judge not" deception? Is there even one percent of believers who have not fallen for that diversion? Surely it seems that at least 99 out of 100 are guilty of either not rebuking someone for misquoting Jesus, or of repeating the mindless "Judge not" themselves. Believers need to turn from this sin and ask God for wisdom to keep from being so easily deceived again.

Curse God and die!
Is that good advice? Word for word, it is in the Bible. Job’s wife counsels her husband to "Curse God and die" (Job 2:7). Many verses, if ripped out of context, can ruin lives. Judas "went and hanged himself" (Mat. 27:5) and as Jesus said "Go and do likewise" (Luke 10:37). The believer who lacks a hunger for God’s word is susceptible to the most absurd dangers.
br> Are members of the Body of Christ today less capable than Israel whom God commanded to "judge righteously" (Deut. 1:16-17; Lev. 19:15)? Moses appointed the head of one out of every ten households as a judge (Ex. 18:25; Deut. 1:15). Should Christians look down upon the entire book of Judges? Should America eliminate all judges, or should just the Christian judges resign? Should believers ignore Paul’s admonition? For he wrote:
"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?" (1Cor. 6:2-5).
Notice that Christians "will judge the world!" (1 Cor. 6:2). For Paul said, "if the world will be judged by you…" God is the Judge of all the world who will delegate that judgment to His people. Even spirit beings will submit to believers: "Do you not know that we shall judge angels?" Then and now, believers should "judge... according to My judgments" (Ezek. 44:24) as God said. The Almighty commits judgment into the hands of His obedient servants (Rev. 20:4, 1 Tim. 5:24). This teaching is ancient for as Enoch, the seventh from Adam, said, "the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgment on all" (Jude 14-15).
Jesus too said, "The men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment with this generation and condemn it..." (Mat. 12:41). And as Solomon wrote, "jealously is a husband's fury; therefore, he will not spare [the adulterer] in the day of vengeance. He will accept no recompense nor will he be appeased..." (Prov. 6:34-35). God gives the responsibility for vengeance, condemnation and judgment to His servants for "every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord…" (Isa. 54:17).
Today, many believers are effectively saying, "Lord, thanks but no thanks. I’ll pass on that judgment stuff." But Paul responds, "Start judging now, because you will need the practice" (1Cor. 6:2-5). Remember, "he who is spiritual judges all things. For... we have the mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2:15-16). And God will reward those who judge, and do the hard work: "Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them." (Prov. 24:25).
Jesus said, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). Like Don Quixote tilting at windmills, though, Christians battle an enemy that means them no harm, their inclination to judge. Hopefully the Church will see Judge Not headed for retirement replaced with Judge Rightly.

484 posted on 04/07/2004 2:22:39 PM PDT by LowOiL (Christian and proud of it !)
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To: eleni121
Somehow Libertarians think it is acceptable and somehow a matter of civil liberties (like the ACLU and the Hustler chap the darling of Hollywood -Larry Flynt) to have an uninterrupted flow of inhuman garbage coming into our homes and our streets from all over the world.

Wrong. I think that it should be a personal choice whether you want the "flow of inhuman garbage" coming into your house, not the government's choice. But hey, don't let me stop you from making your strawmen.
485 posted on 04/07/2004 2:36:41 PM PDT by Quick1
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To: biblewonk
But, why is it so hard to imagine the easy and cost effectiveness of simply saying that all hard core porn is now illegal.

Not really.

It wouldn't take much money at all to police it, only to incercerate, for some amount of time, people who willfully blow off the law.

What are you smoking? This would take even more money than drugs to police.

Corporate america would quickly get out of it and so would ma and pa. It would go underground and become much more scarce.

I wonder if they said the same thing about drugs.
486 posted on 04/07/2004 2:40:40 PM PDT by Quick1
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To: Quick1
I don't know where that "Not really" came from.
487 posted on 04/07/2004 2:41:36 PM PDT by Quick1
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To: Quick1
What are you smoking? This would take even more money than drugs to police.

Not if it was done right and the same for drugs. Again let us look to the Bible and see where we have gone wrong.

"So you shall put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear and fear, and no longer act presumptuously." Deut. 17:12-13
Yet, any penalty executed through American courts is not much of a deterrent. Wise King Solomon 2,900 years ago explained why this is so:
Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Eccl. 8:11
When a murderer/drug dealer/pornster is executed/sentensed, three appeals and 12 years after his crime, society has largely forgotten about him. His death/prison sentence has almost no deterrent effect on crime. Further, a life sentence cannot be executed speedily. The swift harsh penalty deters crime.

Put a few porn people in jail, swiftly publically hang a drug pusher, line up a row of child molester and shoot them dead, that will be a deterrent. Anything less is a joke.

488 posted on 04/07/2004 2:52:39 PM PDT by LowOiL (Christian and proud of it !)
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To: Sweet Land
What's correct that each person has his or her own "opinion" as to what "very very evil" is. When the vileness of a particular "evil" becomes far less of an "opinion", and more generally understood -- clearly understood -- and at the same time a deep, deep respect for others is made common -- by that, I mean a respect for the "benefit of the doubt" for the indepedent action of individuals possibly engaged in such activity -- then we can talk law and the force of law.

Let me use a prosaic and often experiencd example. Traffic court. Is speeding evil? No. Risky and careless operation of a motor vehicle is, however, an evil. The evil of endangerment, or endangering others, or even of engaging in an activity in such a way to cause others to reasonably believe they are endangered.

Traffic court, as usually found to be currently practised does NOT encourage safety, and is the founding of many people's disrespect for the law. Why? Because the local Judges often presume guilt, and enforce a badly constructed law -- speeding, that is. Speeding, alone, is NOT a sufficient indicator of unsafe or reckless operation. That is clear to all.

Speeding is not an evil. If Judges were more careful with and respectful of both Law and Person, they would care to ascertain the circumstance of each speeding violation. Does the circumstance suggest unsafe or careless operation?

And the Legislators would be careful -- if the Judges were not in the practise of ascertaining bad, evil, actions in addition to the report of an over-limit speed -- the legistlators should care to make "reckless, unsafe operation" a requirement to find fault.

Since we nearly all are expert, or at least well-capable, drivers we all have a strong and common sense of what unsafe and reckless operation of a motor vehicle is. Every day -- while driving -- we apply that highly refined and developed judgement. There are few things we do better, really, than drive. There are individual and rare occassioned exceptions, of course, but given any number of juries of American adults, or of any number of mature and sane Judges -- when presented the same facts and traffic cicumstances of a violation would all reasonably be assumed to make the same determination as to being endangering or not.

We have the ability to use discernment and judgment regarding traffic violations -- of crimes of the road.

Yet such discretion and respect is NOT the way it is. We, in our society today, accept easy proofs of crime. We confuse violations of some rudely constructed regulation with evil, with crime.

Too easily accept them. Crimes SHOULD include some indication of obvious evil action to be crimes, or even of misdemeanors.

Our standards are too low. We judge too rashly.

We are far from being able to judge, to measure, blasphemy, being too perplexed in matters spiritual. Yet we can judge "fighting words", for we are adept at nuances of inter-personal expression among groups and individuals.

489 posted on 04/07/2004 3:02:15 PM PDT by bvw
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To: LowOiL
Enforcing my personal morality on others is repulsive to me.

Perhaps that is because you have no idea what is moral. You have lost the ability to judge

Wrong. A key word in my statement is "enforcing," a concept that is addressed nowhere in your lengthy cut-and-paste. Care to try again?

490 posted on 04/07/2004 3:14:34 PM PDT by Sweet Land (http://www.savingangel.org)
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To: Sweet Land
my statement is "enforcing," a concept that is addressed nowhere in your lengthy cut-and-paste. Care to try again?

Did you read post 477? It most certainly address "enforcing". Care to read again?

491 posted on 04/07/2004 3:20:04 PM PDT by LowOiL (Christian and proud of it !)
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To: LowOiL
When a murderer/drug dealer/pornster is executed/sentensed, three appeals and 12 years after his crime, society has largely forgotten about him. His death/prison sentence has almost no deterrent effect on crime. Further, a life sentence cannot be executed speedily. The swift harsh penalty deters crime.

We can speed things up in one of two ways: multiply the size, and therefore the cost, of the court system manyfold; or do away with many of the procedural safeguards against punishing the innocent and protecting the Constitutional rights of the accused.

Which do you advocate?

492 posted on 04/07/2004 3:20:28 PM PDT by Sweet Land (http://www.savingangel.org)
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To: Quick1
The government - at least this one - is a government responsible to me and my vote. So, the dichotomy you fabricate defies reason. Government's representatives are authorized to represent my best interests since I cannot go and firebomb the local porn club.

If porn is coming into my neighbor's house that impacts directly on me and my children.

493 posted on 04/07/2004 3:21:13 PM PDT by eleni121 (Preempt and Prevent---then Destroy)
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To: LowOiL
Did you read post 477?

Did you read my reply to it in post 482?

494 posted on 04/07/2004 3:22:33 PM PDT by Sweet Land (http://www.savingangel.org)
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To: eleni121
If porn is coming into my neighbor's house that impacts directly on me and my children.

Please elucidate the nature of this "direct" impact. It's not clear how anything (short of explosions) going on in your neighbor's house can possibly "directly" impact on you.

495 posted on 04/07/2004 3:24:21 PM PDT by Sweet Land (http://www.savingangel.org)
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To: Sweet Land
"Please elucidate the nature of this "direct" impact."

You are kidding right? You cannot figure it out for yourself?

The largest viewer category for hardcore porn is teenage boys between the ages of 12-17.
"Ninety-one percent of junior high school age and older boys and eighty-two percent of junior high school age and older girls, admitted seeing X-rated, hardcore pornography; two-thirds of the males and forty percent of the females tried some of the behavior; twenty-five percent of the males and fifteen percent of the females admitted doing some of the things within a few days after exposure." (Dr. Jennings Bryant as reported to Dr. Victor Cline.)

http://www.capalert.com/pornandkids.htm

496 posted on 04/07/2004 3:31:30 PM PDT by eleni121 (Preempt and Prevent---then Destroy)
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To: Quick1
Senator Smoot (Republican, Ut.)
Is planning a ban on smut.
Oh root-ti-toot for Smoot of Ut.
And his reverent occiput.
Smite, Smoot, smite for Ut.
Grit your molars and do your dut.,
Gird up your L--ns,
Smite h-p and th-gh,
We'll all be Utah
By and by….

When smut's to be smitten
Smoot will smite
For G-d, for country
And Fahrenheit.

Senator Smoot is an institute
Not to be bribed with pelf;
He guards our homes from erotic tomes
By reading them all himself.
Smite, Smoot, smite for Ut.,
They're smuggling smut from Balt. to Butte!
Strongest and sternest
Of your s-x
Scatter the scoundrels
from Can. to Mex….

Smite, Smoot,
Be rugged and rough,
Smut if smitten
Is front-page stuff.
497 posted on 04/07/2004 3:36:44 PM PDT by drjoe
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To: biblewonk
why is it so hard to imagine the easy and cost effectiveness of simply saying that all hard core porn is now illegal.

Back in my post #410, I asked you to define "porn." I'm still waiting for an answer.

It would go underground and become much more scarce.

And internet porn originating in foreign countries would quickly take its place, wouldn't it?

498 posted on 04/07/2004 3:38:09 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Dan from Michigan
But it shouldn't be a heavy governmental priority, especially by the FEDS who have no business involved there at all(10th amendment).

This is the sick thing about it all, the Fedguv involvement. It would be all in order if every single state of its own accord chose to ban all porn. But the Feds are bent on leaning ever harder on the courts to ramp up the judicial activism against what is already a swiss cheesed Constitution.

499 posted on 04/07/2004 3:48:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: eleni121
If porn is coming into my neighbor's house that impacts directly on me and my children.

How exactly does your neighbor looking at a Playboy directly influence you and your children?
500 posted on 04/07/2004 4:57:20 PM PDT by Quick1
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