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To: LibertarianInExile
The Japanese signed a treaty ceding Taiwan back to China at the point of a gun, too

No. Japan never ceded Taiwan back to anyone. Japan's WWII surrender relinquished all claim to Taiwan but did not cede it back to China or any country. If the communists hadn't taken over China, most likely the treaty would have ceded it to China, but that was not in the treaty.

In no way am I saying Japan has a cliam on Taiwan if that's what you think.

Neither China nor Japan have any valid claim to Taiwan. China is the only one claiming that.

The US as liberators of Japan (and Taiwan) acyually have a better claim on Taiwan than either Japan or China if anyone has a claim.

The whole idea of claims, though, is ludicrous. It is a nation of 23 million (more than Australia) in the top tier of all nations economically.

How can anyone claim that? It's nonsense.

11 posted on 02/03/2004 5:33:17 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy
Um, yes and no. Very lawyerly of you. The WWII surrender docs signed on Mo don't have that specifity, but they do agree to surrender to SCAP-Japan. So the Japanese directly surrendered to the SCAP, who ordered them to surrender all of China, including Taiwan, to a person, Chiang Kai-Shek, pursuant to General Order 1 of the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, MacArthur. Chiang Kai-Shek just happened to be the representative of the Chinese government at the time.

"a. The senior Japanese commanders and all ground, sea, air and auxiliary forces within China (excluding Manchuria), Formosa and French Indo-China north of 16 north latitude shall surrender to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek."

Not that the U.S. didn't really have the dominant influence there or in China after Mao started getting fidgety--but technically, China had possession of Taiwan last before Taiwan became a (practically) independent country. Which is what I think we're arguing about.

RE: claims, no doubt that no claim is more valid than that of the people of Taiwan to their own sovereignty. I am a strong advocate of their independence and feel that if we, the people of the U.S., are actually saying that the Taiwanese people should not declare their independence from a PRC government that doesn't devise its power from the consent of the governed, we have lost our way and should quit claiming our nation started in 1776. I hate the notion of fighting over Taiwan, but I think we're going to eventually and I'd rather fight while I CAN fight personally than leave it to my children to someday clean up.
12 posted on 02/03/2004 6:56:29 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (THIS TAGLINE VETTED BY THE TSA...it was sharp and had a point before they got to it.)
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