Taiwan Seeks Demilitarised Zone

The BBC ^ | February 3, 2004

[RWR8189]

President Chen has refused to hold talks with pre-conditions

Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian has called for a demilitarised zone to be set up between Taiwan and China.

Mr Chen said troops and missiles should be removed from the area as a prelude to talks between the two sides.

The president also repeated a call for Taiwan and China to swap envoys and develop relations - absent since Taiwan split from China in 1949.

China regards Taiwan as part of its territory and has repeatedly threatened to take it over by force.

The mainland has been angered by Mr Chen's plan to hold a referendum next month on Taiwanese defence and relations with China - a move which China fears could be a step towards Taiwan formally declaring independence.

Referendum anger

President Chen called for the "establishment of a demilitarised zone (including removal of combat personnel, equipment and deployed missiles), creating a buffer zone in terms of time and space to facilitate negotiation".

He did not say where the zone might be.

One of two questions in the planned 20 March referendum will ask Taiwanese if the island should bolster its defences if China refuses to redeploy its missiles aimed at Taiwan.

Mr Chen also called for "representatives stationed in Taipei and Beijing to facilitate communication and conveyance of messages".

China has previously rejected holding talks with Taiwan until it recognises it is part of mainland China.

The Taiwanese leader has rejected talks with pre-conditions.

The BBC's Taiwan correspondent Chris Hogg says President Chen faces a tough battle for re-election next month.

He says Mr Chen is under pressure to show he is a pragmatic leader who can deal with the Chinese.

[tallhappy]

absent since Taiwan split from China in 1949.

The big lie has stuck. Taiwan didn't split from China.

Taiwan wasn't even part of China. It was part of Japan. It had been part of the defeated Japanese empire and it was bombed out by us and defeated by us. As part of an agreement between the major allied governments, after Japan's loss Taiwan would be integrated in to the Republic of China.

But less than four years later the Republic of China was defeated in the longstanding Chinese civil war (of which tawan took absolutely no part). It wasn't for two or three years after this that Japan's surrender was formalized and they formally relinquished soverinty over or any claim to Taiwan.

Taiwan didn't split from China in 1949. This is one of those lies that has been told so often over the decades that nop pone even questions it or thinks about it.

[tallhappy]

China has previously rejected holding talks with Taiwan until it recognises it is part of mainland China.

More nonsense. From the author this time. He goes as far out of his way as possible so he doesn't have to say "People's Republic of China". So he says the ludicrous that an island has to be recognized as part of a mainland.

It's an island. Geography is geography.

[DeuceTraveler]

Hmmm... now it all hits the fan. Will be an interesting week.

[one_eyed_penguin]

Taiwan belongs to itself, not Japan or China.

[LibertarianInExile]

You might want to check this out...it kind of lets on who the Japs stole it from in a 'peace treaty' in 1895.

Hint: the Japanese did not steal it from the Japanese natives.

I'm no Sinophile, but don't give the Japanese something they historically didn't have. Chinese have been resident on Taiwan since before it was called Taiwan. I'm not about to back the Reds here, but it's certainly more legitimately Chinese than Japanese.

[tallhappy]

Taiwan belongs to itself, not Japan or China.

Yup.

[tallhappy]

Yes, Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895 by China.

It was not split from China in 1949.

History is on Taiwan's side on this issue and you can't go wrong citing it.

[LibertarianInExile]

History is on 'Taiwan's side?' What does that mean? They have a history of independence?

Or is it that we respect treaties as dispositive of disputed territory? So we give any colonialist that treated with China its territory back, because the treaties say so, they have first claim, and the territory was disputed at the end of WWII. You go tell those Koreans that their territory rightfully belongs to Japan instead of the Korean people--Japan has a better claim than they do because Japan and China signed a treaty before the war. Make sure you are ready for a lot of people laughing in your face.

You'd think instead of imagining that the last century is Asia's default setting, you would try recognizing that recorded history in Asia isn't just the last two hundred years--it's something on the order of four THOUSAND years--and the Chinese simply have a record of Taiwanese presence and regional dominance that is undeniable. I am NOT saying 'they get Taiwan.' I AM saying they have a greater historical claim than any but the native Taiwanese!

If you want to claim Taiwan should be independent, I'm with you. If you want to claim Taiwan should be left alone by the PRC, I'm with you. But if you're telling me that Japan has a better claim to the island than the PRC because of a treaty that the PRC signed at the point of a gun, puh-leeze. The Japanese signed a treaty ceding Taiwan back to China at the point of a gun, too. The U.S. just happened to be stupid enough to let its President agree to the 'One-China Policy' and go soft on Communism, and Nixon messed that up, not me. Don't get mad at me for telling the truth, that history doesn't fit the situation as we'd hope it would.

[tallhappy]

They have a history of independence?

Yes.

After China ceded Taiwan, Taiwan established the first Republic in Asia's history. They didn't want to be ruled by Japan.

Japan though was able to defeat them in a matter of months.

[tallhappy]

The Japanese signed a treaty ceding Taiwan back to China at the point of a gun, too

No. Japan never ceded Taiwan back to anyone. Japan's WWII surrender relinquished all claim to Taiwan but did not cede it back to China or any country. If the communists hadn't taken over China, most likely the treaty would have ceded it to China, but that was not in the treaty.

In no way am I saying Japan has a cliam on Taiwan if that's what you think.

Neither China nor Japan have any valid claim to Taiwan. China is the only one claiming that.

The US as liberators of Japan (and Taiwan) acyually have a better claim on Taiwan than either Japan or China if anyone has a claim.

The whole idea of claims, though, is ludicrous. It is a nation of 23 million (more than Australia) in the top tier of all nations economically.

How can anyone claim that? It's nonsense.

[LibertarianInExile]

Um, yes and no. Very lawyerly of you. The WWII surrender docs signed on Mo don't have that specifity, but they do agree to surrender to SCAP-Japan. So the Japanese directly surrendered to the SCAP, who ordered them to surrender all of China, including Taiwan, to a person, Chiang Kai-Shek, pursuant to General Order 1 of the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, MacArthur. Chiang Kai-Shek just happened to be the representative of the Chinese government at the time.

"a. The senior Japanese commanders and all ground, sea, air and auxiliary forces within China (excluding Manchuria), Formosa and French Indo-China north of 16 north latitude shall surrender to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek."

Not that the U.S. didn't really have the dominant influence there or in China after Mao started getting fidgety--but technically, China had possession of Taiwan last before Taiwan became a (practically) independent country. Which is what I think we're arguing about.

RE: claims, no doubt that no claim is more valid than that of the people of Taiwan to their own sovereignty. I am a strong advocate of their independence and feel that if we, the people of the U.S., are actually saying that the Taiwanese people should not declare their independence from a PRC government that doesn't devise its power from the consent of the governed, we have lost our way and should quit claiming our nation started in 1776. I hate the notion of fighting over Taiwan, but I think we're going to eventually and I'd rather fight while I CAN fight personally than leave it to my children to someday clean up.

[tallhappy]

The Japanese surrender treaty was the Treaty of San Francisco which wasn't finished until six years after the war ended.

You can read it here

Concerning Taiwan it states in CHAPTER II, TERRITORY, Article 2:

(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.

That's all.

Japanese surrender documents can be read here

Other treaties relating to Taiwan can be read here.

[tallhappy]

if we, the people of the U.S., are actually saying that the Taiwanese people should not declare their independence from a PRC government that doesn't devise its power from the consent of the governed, we have lost our way and should quit claiming our nation started in 1776.

Yes. Exactly right and well put.