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To: Jeff Winston
Of course, “natural born subject” would eventually give way completely to the use of the term “natural born citizen.”

It wasn't whether one term would eventually give way to the other, so I'll file that under 'if you can't refute the logic, change the question'.

For you edification, it's the implication that you continue to purvey that children of aliens born on American soil TODAY are Constitutionally *natural born citizens*.

You do so by basing your entire argument on the assumption that the exception of the Naturalization Acts are still in operation today as they were then.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here.

That you can no more base a viable, rational argument on a fallacy any more than you can base a viable, legal argument on a violation of the Law.

Fruit of the Poisoned Tree, and all that.

238 posted on 03/18/2013 10:36:30 AM PDT by MamaTexan (To follow Original Constitutional Intent, one MUST acknowledge the Right of Secession)
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To: MamaTexan; joseph20
For you edification, it's the implication that you continue to purvey that children of aliens born on American soil TODAY are Constitutionally *natural born citizens*.

If the Founders and Framers established a Constitutional rule, and that Constitutional rule has never been changed by Constitutional Amendment, then the Constitutional rule still applies.

Until and unless we change the Constitution by Amending it.

This is really very basic and elementary. Our Founding Fathers established a Constitution. That Constitution is the fundamental law of the land.

If you don't like the Constitution the way they set it up, then change it. They provided a process for that, and that Amendment process has been used now 27 times.

But don't misrepresent what the Founding Fathers and the Framers meant.

I thought fidelity to the Founding Fathers, the Framers, and the Constitution was the mark of a Patriot. I thought fidelity to those founding principles was the entire purpose of this site, and the shared goal of those who congregate here.

It's certainly MY goal.

And that is why I am not indulgent of you or anybody else twisting the Constitution. Even if you think it's for a good purpose.

You do so by basing your entire argument on the assumption that the exception of the Naturalization Acts are still in operation today as they were then.

No, I do so by basing my entire argument on the available EVIDENCE as to what the Founders and the Framers meant when they said "natural born citizen."

You and some others base YOUR entire argument on what you THINK would be best for the country: A complete elimination of the possibility of any foreign influence at all upon all persons who might be elected President.

That sounds like a noble and America-interest goal, and I suppose that it is.

There's just one problem.

That's not what the Founders and the Framers said.

So the proper approach, if you believe you have a better idea than the Founders and the Framers, is to change the Constitution that they wrote.

One of the great things about the Founders and the Framers is that they KNEW they were not giving us a perfect system of government. They KNEW that it had some flaws in it, from the very beginning.

Perhaps the greatest flaw in the INITIAL system they gave us was its toleration of slavery. Some of those who founded the country made a sad compromise with that institution so that they could simply get the country launched. They believed that if they were able to launch this country, eventually the institution of slavery would be extinguished. And it was.

I think they also knew that other things might need to be fixed, and that times might change, necessitating changes in the Constitution.

So they provided a means for us to Amend that document.

Again, if you believe they should have made it so that only those born on US soil of US citizen parents could be elected President, then you can certainly make that argument. There is something to be said for it.

As for "putting words in your mouth:" I haven't. I am simply suggesting to you what your best REAL argument would be.

240 posted on 03/18/2013 10:52:54 AM PDT by Jeff Winston
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