Beyond Gay Marriage

Weekly Standard ^ | 08/04/2003 | Stanley Kurtz

[EdReform]

BTTT for later...

[Yosemitest]

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

[sojourner]

You still, haven't adressed what the problem with the institution of marriage IS. What is the root cause for the instability?

In a word, sin.

[sojourner]

How did they all end up in academia?

Academia created them.

[sojourner]

Bush has the "bully pulpit." Why is he refusing to use it?

My personal theory is that he is waiting to get re-elected. A lot less risk in that second/final term in office.

[KantianBurke]

Was under the impression that the nation is actually supportive of such an amendment. Where's the danger? The only groups that would become energized b its passage woon't be voting for Bush in the first place.

[Jeff Chandler]

Sexual perversion is healthy and normal, but conservative values are pathological.

[sojourner]

Was under the impression that the nation is actually supportive of such an amendment. Where's the danger? The only groups that would become energized b its passage woon't be voting for Bush in the first place.

Excellent point -- I obviously didn't think this all the way through. Perhaps he is buying time for his lawyers to come up with the proper language to "codify" marriage, as he put it? I like your thoughts on this better. (Honestly, I wish he would speak out more strongly/conservatively on a variety of issues.)

[ellery]

The state will never be able to abolish marriage. Marriage existed long before the state decided to get involved and "license" it, and will continue to thrive regardless of what the government does. It should be a private, religious institution.

[Yosemitest]

Romans 1: 18 - 32 - Study This Chapter
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[livius]

Interesting and well-researched article.

One important point, often ignored, is that in polygamous societies, women are always worth a little less than dirt.

Another important point is that polygamous societies tend to be sloppy and unproductive. Most of the work is done by women, while the male herds them and impregnates them. I once read somewhere that one of the great gifts of Judeo-Christian culture to the world was the codification of monogamous marriage.

Men, for one reason or another, are much more productive when they have one wife. We won't speculate on why that is, but it does seem to be true, if you look at polygamous cultures (starting with Islamic countries).

[Greybird]

[...] Sooner or later, friends like this are going to start contracting same-sex marriages of convenience. The single mom will get medical and governmental benefits, will share her friend's paycheck, and will gain an additional caretaker for the kids besides. [...] In Hawkins's words, the proliferation of such arrangements "would turn marriage into the moral equivalent of a Social Security benefit."

And there's the crux of the REAL problem: the use of state-sanctioned marriage to carry a politicized load of obligations and "benefits" under force of law.

Current tax and employee-benefit laws push, first, the provision of insurance and other benefits through employers; and second, the "convenience" -- even with duplication among two working adults -- of having these linked to spouses. The "marriage penalty" in the income tax for two working spouses is only a feeble counter-cost to the much broader benefit of employer-provided health insurance.

The linkage of marriage to governmental benefits and favors in the welfare state has the same dynamic. Smaller single-parent counter-costs (AFDC, WIC) are dwarfed in economic impact by marital benefits (Social Security, most of all).

It's the removal of such required linkages, between marriage and private-but-nearly-forced or governmental benefits, that would remove the real problem. Along with state sanction or invasive force to support other marital "benefits," such as the enforced and sole right to hospital visitation. (One such linkage is, fortunately, being largely removed with the abolition of the inheritance tax.)

When marriage -- obligations and benefits -- is removed from the purview of the State, the usual dynamic of a free society will re-emerge: Those valuing a marital commitment will carry it out, and find religious and other supporters to carry it out, on their own voluntary terms. Not with ulterior motives of gaining government-mandated bennies.

Government is a lousy moral teacher, but that's the role this neocon writer is demanding. If a "Marriage Amendment" were passed, it would be as successful at stopping the seeking of marital alternatives as the Prohibition Amendment was at stopping the market for alcohol. Namely, not at all, except in adding costs -- such as hiding one's activities from the police, making alternative institutions outside the State's purview, and weakening support for the rule of law.

[El Gato]

IMO, marriage is to benefit future generations (the children), not to provide some goodie grab bag for the married partners. This should be kept in mind when deciding what tax and other benefits accrue to families.

That was the original notion behind giving different tax treatment to married couples than to singles as well as having employers include spouses and children in group insurance coverages.

In this respect, polgamy and polyandry are, unlike same sex unions, at least still founded on begetting and raising children. Many cultures in many times and places have or do practice polygamy. I know of none that did so before the last few decades anywhere. Oh there was homosexuality and even legally and socially condoned and/or incouraged homosexuality, but AFAIK, not homosexual marriage.

[El Gato]

You still, haven't adressed what the problem with the institution of marriage IS. What is the root cause for the instability?

Welfare and No Fault Divorce. Plus a certain amount of hedonism proliferated by the entertainment media. IOW, liberal transformations of society in the pursuit of "fairness" and "equality", as opposed to justice and equal treatment before the law.

[El Gato]

I know of none that did so

Oops, I meant none that practiced homosexual marriage before the last few decades.

[redangus]

Easy solution to the tax issues. A national sales tax which impacts everyone equally and no inheritance tax.

[Snuffington]

Stanley Kurtz has been one of the only conservative writers to devote much energy to the defense of marriage. He has unfailingly defended traditional marriage in a positive, intellectual, and unapologetic way. Why more conservatives aren't rallying to this cause worries me greatly, but thank God for Stanley Kurtz.

[Vindiciae Contra TyrannoSCOTUS]

Why more conservatives aren't rallying to this cause worries me greatly

Ignorant Citizens Destroying Freedom the nation is exactly where the people want it to be. I'll say it again, the nation is exactly where the people want it to be. If it wasn't, the people would do something to change it. That they don't proves they are content with life as it is.

Beyond that, the American people today are intoxicated with sports and recreation to the point that they have become slaves to it. The best that many of our husbands and fathers can do is to bury themselves in front of the television set all weekend and get drunk while rooting for their favorite sports celebrities. Some do more than that, of course.

Some people work all week so they can follow their favorite college football team to wherever they are playing. Understand that this goes on for as long as the season lasts. The time, money, and energy that goes into such fanaticism is incalculable.

Sports in America has become more than a past-time. It is a religion. It is a religion that demands countless hours and financial contributions from its worshippers. More than that, sports (and many other distractions) have become an excuse for freeborn men and women to acquiesce their God-given responsibility to be a knowledgeable and informed citizenry capable of self-government.