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BUSH'S REAL OPPOSITION: REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVES
news/op/ed ^ | 3/28/2002 | Richard Reeves

Posted on 03/29/2002 3:08:59 PM PST by TLBSHOW

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To: VRWC_minion
Let me help you out here, save you some time:

Would you rather have [Gore, Clinton, Hillary]?

It's not so bad. They all do it.

We don't need principles. We need to win.

It's not W's job to decide what is Constitutional.

Did I get them all?

301 posted on 03/29/2002 7:54:09 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: ModernDayCato
It's not a matter of being confident the Supreme Court will rule one way or the other. It is a matter of leaving decisions on constitutionality to the branch of government, for better or worse, that makes those decisions.

If CFR is a bad idea for whatever reason, fine, veto it. Just don't veto it because you think you know it is "unconstitutional."

Say, for example, "In my view, this bill shuts some people out of political debate and I think that's bad, so I'm vetoing this bill." That result may or may not be achieved constitutionally, but that doesn't matter in this example. It's just the president's opinion that it is a bad bill, that the bad it effects on the campaign system outweighs the good. So you disagree with Bush's view that the good in the bill outweighs the bad. Okay. But this is not abandoning the Constitution, especially when he knew the minute he signed it, the lawsuits would be filed to get the matter resolved by the judicial branch.

302 posted on 03/29/2002 7:54:30 PM PST by fightinJAG
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To: OneidaM
Oneida my dear, relax - I never accused you of stifling my right to free speech (you have freepmail btw west point worker)

What makes you so sure the SC will rule against this bill??

303 posted on 03/29/2002 7:55:04 PM PST by rbmillerjr
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To: VRWC_minion; Reagan Man
Maybe we should just move to Afghanistan or something...after all our "King George" is such a corrupt and bad individual.....
304 posted on 03/29/2002 7:55:04 PM PST by Neets
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To: ModernDayCato
Let me take your argument from this side -- what would you suggest -- work the system from the inside? Knock yourself out.

I have taken your point of view for now and I see no action that is appropriate. Heck even trying to convince someone else that Bush sold us out isn't worth doing because, well, he already sold us. There is nothing left to redeem if he sold us.

So, upon adopting your view point there is no hope for any acceptable outcome therefore there is no point in a) worrying about voting b) worrying about how Bush takes care of any issues c) worrying about whether liberals continue to gain power.

Its all over. Lets just graciously hand over the Keyes (pun intened) to the Liberals, shut off the lights in CA, and go home.

305 posted on 03/29/2002 7:55:50 PM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: fightinJAG
But JAG, it is precisely Bush's job to protect my rights. I pay him for his wisdom and his opinions.

The argument that the negative effects on my free speech don't offset the 'positive' improvements to campaigns is, in fact, his opinion on the bill.

If he knew the minute he signed it that the Supreme Court would strike down the 'bad' parts, he knew it was Unconstitutional. He took an oath to uphold the Constitution. That's what I pay him for.

306 posted on 03/29/2002 7:58:25 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: ModernDayCato
Is political compromise different than any other?

No difference. But this is a political website and we are discussing politics, after all. Hence the term, political compromise.

It seems to me that CFR breached the boundaries (the Constitution)...

President Bush said he thought parts of CFR, were constitutionally questionable.

Have no fear, the USSC will overturn the issue ad bans, which are a direct infringement of our second amendment right to freedom of speech.

307 posted on 03/29/2002 7:58:59 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: OneidaM
Maybe we should just move to Afghanistan or something

Good idea. They have no gov't, we can start fresh with a constitution that has a clause for automatic removal of a president if its ever found that he signed an unconstitutional bill.

308 posted on 03/29/2002 7:59:36 PM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
First off, you've taken an exaggerated version of my point of view.

Heck even trying to convince someone else that Bush sold us out isn't worth doing because, well, he already sold us. There is nothing left to redeem if he sold us.

Not a bad point.

Seems to me its much easier to slam my point of view than advance yours. So, then, what now?

309 posted on 03/29/2002 8:00:23 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: ModernDayCato
Seems to me its much easier to slam my point of view than advance yours. So, then, what now?

Your leading, I'm following but I warn you I don't dance well.

310 posted on 03/29/2002 8:02:13 PM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: Reagan Man
I guess what this comes down to is pretty simple -- the Koolaid Brigade doesn't see anything wrong with compromising away the Constitution. The rationale is that the Supreme Court will cover our @sses for us, so we can sign anything we want as long as we can get some political advantage from it.

Sorry, but that's just never going to work for me.

311 posted on 03/29/2002 8:02:32 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: VRWC_minion
Whoa, there, Sparky. I thought I had given up. You're there by yourself now. Enlighten us.
312 posted on 03/29/2002 8:03:08 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: rbmillerjr
Mail read and answered DEAR...LOL...I am calm...I just like the debate..and stand FIRM in my support for my President...and now I am upset that I broke my promise to myself that I would not engage in the CFR Bash Bush Debate..but here I am.
313 posted on 03/29/2002 8:03:44 PM PST by Neets
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To: OneidaM;all
Join we conservatives criticizing your beloved George then - show some conservative principle and help us move him to the conservative just a few tads.

Nobody wants to respond to this, we are just told to move along and support the Party or thus engaged in reductio absurdum argument.

314 posted on 03/29/2002 8:04:35 PM PST by rbmillerjr
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To: rbmillerjr
No, this is good. Rove and Bush are remaking the Republican Party. How do you like it so far?
315 posted on 03/29/2002 8:06:36 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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To: ModernDayCato
You're there by yourself now. Enlighten us

Its way past my bedtime but I will leave you with one piece of advise. Get your CPA to do your projections. He shouldn't miss that you run into ALT min tax. No telling what else you are missing.

Its still tax season and I need my beauty sleep.

316 posted on 03/29/2002 8:06:56 PM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: ModernDayCato
I'll not vote for Bush if he does indeed betray the cause but I view this as a war. If we retreat on a battle field and the solidiers say we're defeated lets go home; then no war could have ever been won. I see Bush signing a bill that will be killed in court or never enacted visa his recess appointment to enact the bill. I see him taking an issue out of Democratic campaign slogans and befuddling the Democratic party.

I see him appointing big-time conservatives in recess appointments. I see us gaining back an edge in the judiciary which dictates the morale compass this country follows.

Unless he totally caves in this war then I'd not vote for anyone but him; because the alternative is too frightening. I think its ridiculous to hold someone in this war between the parties to such a high bar; there is a reason no TRUE PUBLIC conservative could be elected in the election.

You people need to chill for a few months and the re-evaluate the fallout.

317 posted on 03/29/2002 8:08:01 PM PST by Naspino
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To: VRWC_minion
I always run my numbers before they go off to the CPA. She (you sexist :-}) usually finds all the other mistakes.

Why leave now? I set up your soapbox for you. I think you know the same thing I do...neither side wins on this one.

318 posted on 03/29/2002 8:08:29 PM PST by ModernDayCato
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Comment #319 Removed by Moderator

To: rbmillerjr
WE ARE CONSERVATIVES, YOU DOLT. Saying we're not, doesn't make it so. Because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm NOT a conservative.
320 posted on 03/29/2002 8:08:50 PM PST by Howlin
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