SASU Talking Points

Well I was going to say receptive.

If you keep this up, someone may accuse us of having a sense of humor.

THEN where would we be.

Shalom.

P.S. I was disappointed that nobody reacted to my "liberal" crack - er - joke. Man, you have to be so careful what you say on one of the SAD threads.

It happens to me all the time. I'm talking to my children and I get sucked up into the following situation. Regardless of the topic I have the same thing happen all the time.

Number 1 Son: Hey dad, can I have some matches?
Father: No son you may not!
Number 1 Son: But dad I really need some matches.
Father: Your only 8 years old. Why do you need the matches, son?
Number 1 Son: I wanna play with fire. Its a lot of fun Dad please?
Father: No son, playing with fire is dangerous and you can be hurt badly.
Number 1 Son: I won't get hurt dad I know all about fire. I learned about fire in school. It's a good thing fire is. You can get warm if your cold and use it for many good things like cooking food and disposing of trash. It's not dangerous if you're careful. Come on dad I wanna play with fire. Can I?
Father: No son fire is too dangerous and you may get burned or burn down the house. It's very dangerous and I don't want you to play with matches.
Number 1 Son: I won't get hurt I know it. Nute Wilkes down the street plays with fire and his parents gave him some matches. I will wear gloves like he does, they got him asbestos gloves for protection and he wears them so he won't get burned. You can get me some gloves and I'll be really careful. I just want to burn trash for you so you won't have so much trash and everything will be cleaned up for you. I have this worksheet from school and it shows exactly how to play with fire without ever getting hurt. They told us that wanting to play with fire is perfectly natural for people our age and its Ok to have these feelings. Look there is a picture here of a boy lighting a fire. See his gloves? He won't get hurt cause he has gloves and knows how to use fire. The school said they would give us some free asbestos gloves so I won't get hurt. Come on Dad, please?
Father: No son I don't want you to play with fire and I don't care what Nute Wilkes parents allow at their house. I won't allow you to play with fire. Its too dangerous and you will get hurt or you will hurt someone else.
Number 1 Son: Look dad here is a pamphlet from "Fire Starters of America" They say kids my age should be allowed to play with fire and its perfectly normal for us and its safe as long as you follow safety procedures. Look they even tell you how to do it and be safe. They have been suing the government to allow kids to play with fire and got the law changed so that now its Ok. That's why they can teach us about it in school Look here is a picture of Samual Hotrocks the president of Fire Starters. He says we should be allowed to play with fire because its fun and makes us feel good. They say its normal and we are born wanting to play with fire. Come on dad please let me play with fire. It's not bad cause our teacher said. please?
Father: Thinking about playing with fire and playing with fire are two different things, Son. Fire burns thousand of children every year and kills many of them! We have fire fighters and fire stations to put fires out that kids start by accident! Sometimes the fire fighters get killed, too. It costs your Mom and Dad money for fire insurance and our community also pays for the costs of fires. So, you see, not only are you likely to be hurt by playing with fire, but also your family and your friends in our community. Samuel Hotrocks can say all he wants about your "urges". I am telling you that allowing you to follow those feelings would be very irresponsible of me and very dangerous for you!
Number 1 Son: Why! How can I hurt others if I just do it by myself? I am eight! I can handle the the risk.
Father: You're not listening to me, are you?
Number 1 Son: Come on dad! Please?
Father: No!
Number 1 Son: Please I'll be real careful!
Father: No!
(About this time here comes his brother)
Number 2 Son: What you guys talkin' about Daddy?
Father: We are talking about bigger guy stuff. I'll tell you about it when you're old enough.
Number 1 Son: Mr. Hotrocks says he has a right to know about fire, Dad. You have to tell him or you're wrong!
Father: No! Your brother is 4 and is far to young to learn about using fire. He knows I don't want him to play with fire and it is dangerous and he will get hurt. That is all he needs to know!
Number 2 Son: You told me not to play with fire, Daddy!
Father: That's right! Now you go play in your room and leave fire alone.
Number 2 Son: Ok Daddy!
(Number 2 son goes off to play)
Number 1 Son: Mr. Hotrocks says you're wrong to tell Timmy its bad to play with fire, Dad. He says you're a Bigot if you won't change your rigid way of thinking about fireplay. He says you're ignorant and superstitious when you think this way. You are just going along with what Grams and Gramps taught you when you were little. This is old fashion and Mr. Hotrocks calls it "stinkin' thinkin'". Grams and Gramps don't understand that boys my age are what Mr. Hotrocks calls "emotionally evolved". We can handle things better than you could when you were little and TV was black and white. My teacher told me that people thought in black and white in those days, too. My teacher says that you and Mom are trying to "repress" me. I want to play with some fire and you should let me because its normal and its OK to do it. Please? They show kids playing with fire on TV and it looks like fun. Please?
Father: Look, just because other grown-ups have told you it is OK and you see kids do it on TV does not mean that it is a good thing to do. There are lots of ways to have fun that won't hurt you or others. You have lots of toys and friends to play with that won't put you or anyone else in harm's way.
Number 1 Son: It's hateful for you to not let me play with fire dad. You're just being mean and superstitious. You hate me and I hate you! You're not doing what's right because you're as stupid as a doorknob. Your thinking stinks!! And its not right for you to keep important fire information from Timmy. They told us in school that all kids need to know the proper way to play with fire and you're not being right here, Dad. Please tell Timmy about fireplay and let me play with fire.
(Mental note to speak with this teacher)
Father: I have told you no and I mean No! I am responsible for keeping you safe. I do not have to explain my reasons anymore. You aren't willing to listen, anyway. Quit asking me.
Number 1 Son: Please?
Father: NO! Stop asking!
Number 1 Son: Come on Dad Please?
Father: NO! NO! NO!
Number 1 Son: You're mean! Your Stupid! My teacher says your a Dullard and the Government says he is right. You don't know anything and I hate you. Your an Evil tyrant. You don't love me. You're like the Nazis in Germany. You run this house like a concentration camp.
Father: Go to your room and stay there until I call you!
Number 1 Son: You hate me! You want to keep me locked up like in jail! You're evil and stupid.
(Son stomps out slamming the door) BANG!

Has this ever happened to you? If you have children you know exactly what I'm talking about. Is the father hateful and stupid? Is he basing his opinion on faulty thinking? Is he just a bigot and superstitious? I believe he is not stupid. I believe that he has only the best intention for his son. He loves his son and does not want him to suffer.

You know this got me to thinking. Of all of the conversations I have had here on this board this reminds me most of the ones I have with the homosexuals and their supporters. These people act like my children only they are supposed to be adults. I cannot believe that adults would behave this way but, there it is. A conversation begins with questions on my position on homosexuality. I give my perceptions and am given a litany of reasons as to why my beliefs are invalid. I offer my rebuttal, repeat my stance and my reasons for my stance and then, I have learned, hold on for the usual tirade. Predictably, the onslaught of name calling, slanders as to my character and attacks on my faith begin. They demand that I repeat point for point my reasoning and then they demean it and toss in ad hominem attacks. Every time! It's unbelievable! Its just like talking to my kids.

We parents have a name for the way we deal with our children when they will not listen to reason. It is called "The Broken Record Technique". They ask the question. We provide them with answers aimed at their developmental level. When kids don't like what they hear, their response is to ask the same question over and over. They no longer hear your reasons, nor do they wish to consider any alternatives beyond their own immediate gratification. The "Broken Record" is that constant, unaltered response we parents give when we know that their "Why" is no longer a question but a willful refusal to accept our discipline. As they mature, the boys have become better able to give reasons for their choices and show that they understand the effects that their choices have on themselves and on others. When I see one of my sons delay immediate gratification in exchange for a healthy option, I am very proud of them. I know that they are growing up. Our conversations and our debates have become deeper and more meaningful. I learn a lot from them at these times, too. Broken records can be tossed aside.

I love my fellow citizens! I love Americans! I only want them to be healthy and productive members of society just the same as I love my children. How long do you put up with this type of attitude with your children? Do you punish them when they are disrespectful? Do you send them to their room for a time out? I bet its not too long before you send them to their room or ignore their pleas. They are children and do not know any better. They need guidance and discipline.

Individuals who insist in engaging in dangerous behavior and who also insist that you approve and facilitate their behavior, are juvenile and seem to have an arrest in their development. They have never grown up and need guidance. Some of them need discipline to help them grow into their role as adults. In their ignorance, they are like little children. They have not gained my respect and they have not learned any more than my 3 year old. Their choices hurt others and, ultimately, themselves. At this point, they will probably cry out "Shame on you, Society, you should have warned us!" Unfortunately, at that point, it will be too late!

Thank you erzona for your input. Please stay around as we need your support. You always present well thought out responses to issues and represent the type of people we need supporting our cause. Your opinions matter to us and I hope you will help us to grow as we learn together how to deal with the issues we face daily. These threads are to help us learn to be more effective. You will be a good role model for us all.

Just the other day I called OWK a name on this thread. It was wrong of me but I had been drawn into this game by OWK because of his constant name calling directed at me. I had forgotten to be an adult and I was wrong. I was punished for this with a three day suspension from posting on this board. I deserved it and it was my responsibility. OWK still calls us names and we are trying to better than that by not responding in kind to these attacks.

As a result we have become a tad sensitized to this situation and may be over compensating. I hope you will all bear with us as we continue to learn.

Bumping Post #203

Do me a favor, and stop dragging me into every conversation you have.

It's starting to seem a little creepy.

Thanks in advance.

See what happens when it's no longer fun to play?

Good points... I can't wait to see the rebutals on why you are evil by not letting your kids get hurt playing with matches, the NEA would never teach our children wrong things....would they????

So much for their freedom of speech.

So how do you suppose this trashes freedom of speech? What speech are we eliminating?

So how do you suppose this trashes freedom of speech? What speech are we eliminating?

Uhhh.... aren't they in prison (by your directive)?

How does that violate their freedom of speech?

How does that violate their freedom of speech?

How does imprisoning homosexuals violate their freedom of speech?

That can't possibly be a serious question.... can it?

It is a serious question and it was not originally directed at you. You have asked me not to include you in my conversations. So why are you here? You like feeling creepy?

You have asked me not to include you in my conversations.

I have asked you not to drag me into every conversation that you have. In that, I am voicing an objection to your tendency to raise my name in conversation with others, falsely attributing statements to me when I am not here to rebutt them.

This would seem to me, to be a rather obvious common courtesy.

Now back to the subject at hand.

You really don't understand why your plan to imprison all homosexuals, would be depriving them of their right to free speech (along with countless other rights)?

I pinged you because you complain that I don't ping you when I talk about you. Now you complaining when I ping you because I was talking about you but you don't want to be pinged by me because it makes you feel creepy! Then you butt into a conversation that I am having with someone else, not to answer the question but to mock the question and return to your juvenile rants. You sir, have some serious problems. I suggest you seek counseling so that you may deal with adult issues in an adult manner. Now unless you can provide me with a coherent reasoned response I suggest you go back to you little friends to play and leave the adults to themselves.

I ask again...

You really don't understand why your plan to imprison all homosexuals, would be depriving them of their right to free speech (along with countless other rights)?

I am not going to address my question for you. When you have developed a reasonable response I will make a statement. Until you have something intelligent to say I will not bother with you. You will address me and others on this thread with respect and you will start acting like an adult who knows how to make intelligent healthy choices. Your desire for instant gratification and selfish juvenile taunting has corrupted your thinking and until you grow up and start making healthy choices you will be ignored not only by me but by all the adults. The choice is yours. Healthy choices will bring reward. Unwise and destructive choices will bring you nothing but scorn and discipline. Come back when you know how to behave.

Homosexuals are perverts and I in no way see telling the truth as advocating "violence."

I agree, and as you know have been supporting the use of the word pervert in this context. I accept your rebuke regarding the word faggot.

Thanks for the update.

Shalom.

Has this ever happened to you?

All the time!

But I'm getting wiser. And I don't need to get sucked in on FR.

Shalom.