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To: cracker
"ID is not genetic engineering. You may say that it is, but it is not. What is the ID explanation for the stunning similarity between human and chimp DNA? What reason does ID give for choosing pigs to clone human-usable organs in, and not housecats or snakes? Why would your fanciful ID geneticist not try to grow replacement tranplant eyes on a fern? And, according to ID, why might some of those choices be better than others?"

1.The question is not whether ID is genetic engineering, but rather whether you can have genetic engineering without intelligent design.

2.Similarity between the DNA code for chimps and humans is analogous to the stunning similarity in code between Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Word. One expects to see similarities between designs whenever code re-use is present. In DNA, this code re-use is observed in shared genes. In computer code, this re-use is observed in Objects, API's, DLL's, and subroutines.

3.Why would an intelligent designer use one animal over another life form for various new processes? Because it is intelligent to use that which offers the easiest, quickest, cheapest, and most predictable desired output.

357 posted on 03/05/2002 10:10:05 AM PST by Southack
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To: Southack
1.The question is not whether ID is genetic engineering, but rather whether you can have genetic engineering without intelligent design.

Define genetic engineering. If you mean that genetic codes can be altered, there are many natural processes that do that: mutation, substitution, duplication, viruses, etc. Is that genetic engineering? If so, then indeed, genetic engineering happens all the time without intelligent design.

Or do you mean purposeful change to a species to reach a goal? Well, that obviously requires intelligence, because intent requires a thing capable of intending. But before you claim victory, remember that evolution does not have a purpose or a goal: it just happens, much as the water has no purpose in flowing in the river - it just does.

2.Similarity between the DNA code for chimps and humans is analogous to the stunning similarity in code between Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Word. One expects to see similarities between designs whenever code re-use is present. In DNA, this code re-use is observed in shared genes. In computer code, this re-use is observed in Objects, API's, DLL's, and subroutines.

Much like cars, Microsoft Word does not reproduce itself. We do not theorize that Excel evolved form Word because there is no mechanism that could be proposed: the code has no intrinsic ability to create copies of itself. If it did, then errors might creep in over successive generations, and we might see the code evolve. Indeed, MS programs are so buggy that we might see improvements!

3.Why would an intelligent designer use one animal over another life form for various new processes? Because it is intelligent to use that which offers the easiest, quickest, cheapest, and most predictable desired output.

Any intelligent designer you propose would have to have powers that to us would seem as magic. How can you know what is easiest or quickest for such a being? Indeed, the easiest and quickest method would to do nothing at all: to let evolution (which you still do not disprove, but rather only say "me too" to) take its course. But, since you have now fully entered the world of the supernatural by imagining the attributes and preferences of your designer, science cannot follow.

366 posted on 03/05/2002 10:29:01 AM PST by cracker
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