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To: the_doc
I would say that they are different steps which are contemporaneous.

And I would say that statement is double talk. Still your insistence that 1 Corinthians 2:14 proves your point rings hollow.

But the Arminian is being idiotic.

There you go again. You know doc, I've told you about my Wesleyan heritage. I've also stated clearly that I'm no theologian. But, I went to a Wesleyan Holiness college associated with a Wesleyan Holiness seminary. There I sat under the teaching of some of Christianity's foremost Biblical scholars. If I dropped names here, many would recognize them. These are people who have devoted their lives to the cause of Christ and to the study of scriptures. Many of them risked their very lives for the cause of Christ. Dear friends of ours (now deceased) were in prison in China with Eric Liddle (Chariots of Fire). They go way back.

And you have the audacity to call their position "idiotic."

Am I to believe them, whom I have known and revered for twenty-five years?

Or do I believe you, whom I've "known" via pixels on a screen for 48 hours?

I think I know.

I'm sure you're a nice guy, doc. And I'm sure that you believe you are firmly grounded in your beliefs. But if you can't present them without hurling insults at my heritage and my beliefs, then why should I bother listening to you?

There's been a lot of proof-texting going on here, but I've seen little evidence of John 13:35.

576 posted on 02/21/2002 6:35:06 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
If you will notice the point at which I introduced the word "idiotic," you will see that I did so in the hypothetical situation of an idiot who would twist the bullet-and-board scenario and say that the hole preceded the bullet!

Ward, if that's not an excellent example of an idiot who styles himself a philosopher, then God didn't make little green apples.

So, please explain your complaint more carefully. Please don't just fly off the handle at me. Please show me a little Christian charity when I am trying to help you.

579 posted on 02/21/2002 6:59:31 PM PST by the_doc
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